Is LeBron Overrated?

[tech fan]

If they did the top 50 again, I doubt he would be included.

i think domonique{sp?] wilkins missed the list and he should be on the top 50 easy.

[mavskidd02]

Mav,

If you make too many good points, this thread will be moved!

[live jive]

soonerbud owes me an apology

[ULikeApples]

After the Olympics and this past season my opinion has changed. He's proven me wrong. Since the Olympics he's been on a mission. IMO he's the best player in the league.

I think I was involved in this discussin before, but I'm not 100% sure and didn't want to read back. But anyway, I commend you for bringing this back up when you didn't have to and saying you changed your mind. That's not easy to do, even on an internet board.

[ogarza]

When was the last time a team won an NBA Championship without at least 2 top tier players?

94-95 Rockets....HAKEEM OLAJUWON, was really a one man show...our supporting cast was Thorpe, Maxwell, K. Smith...I mean 2 rookies Horry and Cassell contributed big time to that team, but as far as top tier it was only HAKEEM "the DREAM" OLAJUWON...man do I miss watching him in his prime...best overall center in my opinion...had nice touch outside, unbelieveable quickness for his size, almost unstoppable postup game, decent free throw shooter, great defender, not to mention all time blocked shots leader...

[wayne1218]

What are you talking about Wayne? Marino in the playoffs did not make too many mistakes at all. Yes, I'm going by stats because 15 years later that's all we really have that is concrete. Through the divisional playoffs-conference ship-super bowl the Phins only ever lost TWO games by single digit points. TWO GAMES, both divisional. For the majority of Marino's career, the Dolphins did nothing but win, or get blown out in the playoffs. So where are these GW drives that Marino blew? Or the HUGE interceptions that cost the team the game?

Tell me what his greatest career highlights are mavs? Don't give me career stats either. Tell me about a great highlight you remember from Marino to win a big game.

[wayne1218]

Yes, I'm going by stats because 15 years later that's all we really have that is concrete.

That is a JOKE. It can be 15, 20 or 30 years with guys like Jordan and Montana and you will still be able to talk about several famous plays they made to win games. Think about it for a minute because you see those plays all the time. You see NONE with Marino because he never won anything. The greatest highlight you see of Marino is in the SD playoff game ... a loss .... at home. Pretty sad that that was his crowning moment. You don't struggle to come up with game changing plays or memories for others.

[mavskidd02]

Tell me what his greatest career highlights are mavs? Don't give me career stats either. Tell me about a great highlight you remember from Marino to win a big game.

This was never the point. Now we are judging greatness on great highlights?? You said yourself that Marino was not great because you remember Marino choking on the big stage. To me, playoffs is the big stage and Marino never choked in the playoffs. My point was and still stands simply: to be great you need to have a capable team around you. Sometimes TEAMS don't have what it takes to win it all. Marino's teams didn't.

My question to you still stands, where are all these "choke jobs" Marino committed? I posed you a question, and you answered it with a question.

[wayne1218]

This was never the point. Now we are judging greatness on great highlights?? You said yourself that Marino was not great because you remember Marino choking on the big stage. To me, playoffs is the big stage and Marino never choked in the playoffs. My point was and still stands simply: to be great you need to have a capable team around you. Sometimes TEAMS don't have what it takes to win it all. Marino's teams didn't.

My question to you still stands, where are all these "choke jobs" Marino committed? I posed you a question, and you answered it with a question.

He never seperated himself as a "Closer" in playoff games either.

[wayne1218]

My question to you still stands, where are all these "choke jobs" Marino committed? I posed you a question, and you answered it with a question.

I answered your question a LONG time ago mavs. How many rings does Marino have? ZERO. You know what that means mavs? It means he ended EVERY season with a loss and failure on his mind. That's what it means.

[mavskidd02]

I answered your question a LONG time ago mavs. How many rings does Marino have? ZERO. You know what that means mavs? It means he ended EVERY season with a loss and failure on his mind. That's what it means.

That's such a joke wayne. I stated that Marino didn't have the guys around him to win it all. You said it was not the team's fault and you remember several times when Marino choked on his own or threw interceptions or turned it over on downs in a big spot......

Where? When? He didn't. My point was ALWAYS that he didn't have the guys around him, but he's still great. And you went on about how it was his fault with these "choke jobs". It never happened. He didn't choke, he played well in the playoffs. Which IMO, is where it REALLY counts.

[wayne1218]

That's such a joke wayne. I stated that Marino didn't have the guys around him to win it all.

No mavs, that is a joke. The great ones make everyone around them better and i don't need to go far for a perfect example. Who did Tom Brady have around him when he won 3 Titles? Argue that one ... please! I think most would say Mr. Marino had a HELL of alot more talent around him than Brady did. That argument is a total joke. The greatest ones of all, found a way no matter what to win. If they had to do it on their own, they took over a game and did it. Marino never did. He never won anything. He piled up great numbers like A-Rod during the regular season but when the chips were on the table, he folded.

We obviously feel how we feel so it's no big deal and it's not worth arguing about. You think he was awesome and i think he was a GREAT "Regular Season" QB.

[live jive]

all i know is lebron is a beast i called out this overrated talk from start of thread...he was 18 yr old and first game ever drop 25 pts, 9 assists, 6 reb and 4 steals hahahaha are u kiddin and average same type numbers entire career so far... and he look like he get a ring or couple before he done way he improved defense, jumper, and leadership.

[mavskidd02]

No mavs, that is a joke. The great ones make everyone around them better and i don't need to go far for a perfect example. Who did Tom Brady have around him when he won 3 Titles? Argue that one ... please! I think most would say Mr. Marino had a HELL of alot more talent around him than Brady did. That argument is a total joke. The greatest ones of all, found a way no matter what to win. If they had to do it on their own, they took over a game and did it. Marino never did. He never won anything. He piled up great numbers like A-Rod during the regular season but when the chips were on the table, he folded.

We obviously feel how we feel so it's no big deal and it's not worth arguing about. You think he was awesome and i think he was a GREAT "Regular Season" QB.

Dan Marino never folded when the chips were on the table. You keep referring to these choke jobs and playoff miscues that never happened. They don't exist. When "the chips were on the table", Marino played well. If you want to call the Dolphins (as a team) guys who were incapable of winning it all, that is fine. But Marino played well and not once in the playoffs did he choke in a big spot.

You can judge it all on championships, that is fine. But I proved to you that Marino played well throughout his playoff career and still never brought one home. Not his fault, it is the TEAM, as a whole's fault. I guess we'll agree to disagree here.

Back to LeBron.......

[wayne1218]

Dan Marino never folded when the chips were on the table. You keep referring to these choke jobs and playoff miscues that never happened.

Yes, Because he never came through big in the regular season enough to get them in the playoffs and when they did, no Marino didn't choke? Guess what Mavs, he never once put a team on his back to win a game either. They lost mavs, EVERY single time. That is failure. You want to avoid the choke word, fine. He failed and you can say he didn't all you want but he won NOTHING, EVER, and even you cannot dispute that. Back to my Tom Brady question. Where is your answer. Tell me about all the talent he had around him. You can't mavs because he didn't have any and he certainly didn't have a DUPER & CLAYTON to throw to. Oh yes, and don't tell me it was great coaching in New England because Marino played for one of, if not, the best ever in Shula. Shula won a ton of games and even a perfect super bowl. Even he couldn't pull it off with Marino, not once.

It boggles my mind that you are even arguing that he is great. We agreed on that long ago. Best ever or even top 3? Impossible without a ring.