Clay Buchholz

[wayne1218]

Every bet comes with a guideline.... 1 person sets them and another agrees.... Simple as that

Really? How many times were those guidelines debated in the nascar thread? Several if i remember right but you keep living in your own world .......

[Three Jack]

All joking aside...

15-20 years homie.... LOL you da man 3j

So you actually think someone would have an ERA of 6 plus for 15 yrs and still win 20 games a year? You have got to be kidding me.

I dare you to find one major league pitcher that has had an ERA of 6 for 3 consecutive yrs with a minimum of 125 innings pitched per year.... Get back to me, I 'll be waiting!!!

[kbsooner21]

Thats where I am going but I want him to anser my question....

Good luck with that

[wayne1218]

3J, Nice try. I respect your offer but i knew chicken shit 1 & 2 would want no part of it.

[wayne1218]

So you actually think someone would have an ERA of 6 plus for 15 yrs and still win 20 games a year? You have got to be kidding me.

I dare you to find one major league pitcher that has had an ERA of 6 for 3 consecutive yrs with a minimum of 125 innings pitched per year.... Get back to me, I 'll be waiting!!!

LMAO ... Expect the subject changed yet again because he talks out of his ass and NEVER can back up ANYTHING he says.

[ctt8410]

And I agree with you. But would you really use K's and ERA to decide who is the best? The only other stat I would use other than wins and ERA is WHIP. That is it...the rest is window dressing.

Not ERA, there's still a lot of luck involved in that statistic. To be totally honest, I would use the Bill James statistic, WPA. Win Probability Added. A system in which each player is given credit toward helping his team win, based on play-by-play data and the impact each specific play has on the team's probability of winning.

[The Lovedoc]

And I agree with you. But would you really use K's and ERA to decide who is the best? The only other stat I would use other than wins and ERA is WHIP. That is it...the rest is window dressing.

Listen 3J.. my case on wins is this.... wins can fluxuate* at any time during a career... ERA for the most part doesn't... K's for the most part doesn't either..yes...as you get older, you wont have as many k's as when your in your prime. You could get no run support one year and the next you could get it all. But, like CT said, a pitcher really has no control over wins... He just goes out and does the best and try to not give up any runs for a chance to have his team win

[wayne1218]

You know 3J, It's like trying to see how good a hitter is without looking at his hits!

[Three Jack]

Not ERA, there's still a lot of luck involved in that statistic.

A lot of luck? Hmmmmmm....there is a certain amount of luck in every stat but I personally do not think there is 'a lot of luck' in ERA, at least when talking about starters. Relievers I would give you that it is not as important.

[The Lovedoc]

So you actually think someone would have an ERA of 6 plus for 15 yrs and still win 20 games a year? You have got to be kidding me.

I dare you to find one major league pitcher that has had an ERA of 6 for 3 consecutive yrs with a minimum of 125 innings pitched per year.... Get back to me, I 'll be waiting!!!

Ok..i'm even willing to go to 5 ERA... which is mediocre... people pitch with a 5 era for many many season...and if they have luck on there side, they can get 15-20 wins easily. And no 5 ERA person with 300 wins would make it in the HOF... if there is, maybe 1 person did it, but doubt it

[wayne1218]

3J, Who was the last guy with an era over 5 to sign a huge FA Contract? When was the FA with the most K's given the biggest deal because of that? When was the last time a 15-20 win pitcher signed a huge FA deal? Yup, i guess wins mean more than well, nothing!

[The Lovedoc]

Lets make it easier on everyone.....

Lets drop wins and K's...and just go with ERA?????


Which one of ya bitches want in on that?????? bwhahahahahahahaha

[Three Jack]

Listen 3J.. my case on wins is this.... wins can fluxuate* at any time during a career... ERA for the most part doesn't... K's for the most part doesn't either..yes...as you get older, you wont have as many k's as when your in your prime. You could get no run support one year and the next you could get it all. But, like CT said, a pitcher really has no control over wins... He just goes out and does the best and try to not give up any runs for a chance to have his team win

I don't disagree that wins can be misleading when looking at a single year or two, but you can be a GREAT pitcher and not strike guys out (look at Maddux and Glavine). IMO, you cannot be a great a pitcher and have a high ERA and a low win total. You want to include K's because Jabba is a strike out pitcher. Who care show you get them out if you get them out!

Wins is very much a viable stat when looking at a persons career.

[Three Jack]

Ok..i'm even willing to go to 5 ERA... which is mediocre... people pitch with a 5 era for many many season...and if they have luck on there side, they can get 15-20 wins easily. And no 5 ERA person with 300 wins would make it in the HOF... if there is, maybe 1 person did it, but doubt it

Find me a starting pitcher with an ERA of 5 for 3 straight years with a minimum of 160 IP. 3 yrs!!! Not even 15 like you claim could happen!

[Three Jack]

3J, Who was the last guy with an era over 5 to sign a huge FA Contract? When was the FA with the most K's given the biggest deal because of that? When was the last time a 15-20 win pitcher signed a huge FA deal? Yup, i guess wins mean more than well, nothing!

I can't believe this is even a debate!