NYY offer CC almost $140 million for 6 yrs

[ICD55]

as i recall, CC has had 2 really good years in the regular season. i'm an indian fan so i'll base this just on my memory. before that? AVERAGE. maybe above average, but probably not in the top 10 of anyones list and consistently a disappointment when he went head to head with the other aces in the league. So, he wins 19 games and gets Cleveland to the playoffs in 2007. All we needed was ONE fvcking good game against the RedSox out of 2 and they probably go to the World Series. That is after he sucked against the Yankees in the first round. he was flat out awful all 3 games. And we call him the best pitcher in baseball? What the hell our standards these days? 15 game winner with an ERA of 3.5 and we're the BEST?

fast forward to April 2008. The big fat man can't find the strike zone all of April and half of May in Clevleand. He helps contribute to the slide of the team that can't be overcome. ACE? He lost a 1-0 decision in that span against the NYY. OVERRATED!

He goes to the NL where the batters haven't faced his fast ball day in and day out for the last 6 years and guess what... he helps take the Brewers to the playoffs. Yea for the big fat man that had nothing but nice things to say about Milwaukee except they didn't have enough money to feed his big fat gut. Then what happens.... GRAND SLAM and Milky loses to the Phils in the playoffs. CHOKE CHOKE CHOKE CHOKE

BEST pitcher in Basebal? WHEN? WHERE? What am i missing.

How many times did he get hurt in the first month of the season in Cleveland. I think at least twice when he had to go on the DL for probably 15 games. Lack of conditioning?

Fat, greedy, and overarated? YES YES YES

Above average pitcher and #1 on most teams - Yep.

BEST pitcher in baseball- not yet and probably never

[BigWeiner]

And the REALITY is that signing high priced free agent pitchers has NOT worked out well for the Yankees during the last eight years-either they became injured or didn't live up to expectations-bottom line is no WS championships and early departure in playoffs for the most part.

These teams get insurance for injured players, and it's a risk they have to take. A lot of their past signings were bad, but some were good. CC is still young, and they won't have to trade one of their best young prospects to get him, like the Brewers did. He's exactly what they need for this upcoming season, the money is no object to them, it's a business and they're killing, to keep it that way, they need to spend. For anyone else it would probably be an ill advised signing, but not for them. Burnett is a different story.

[savage1]

$103 million for 6 yrs for Dice K, not $145 but he was unproven.... He believes in 6 yr contracts over $100 million for pitchers. ANd I think it was well worth it....so far!

He may believe in contracts over 100K, but if my math is correct, 145 million is a lot higher than 103 million.
I think Theo is smart enough to draw the line somewhere unlike CASHman(what a fitting name for the gm of the Yankees).

[Three Jack]

as i recall, CC has had 2 really good years in the regular season. i'm an indian fan so i'll base this just on my memory. before that? AVERAGE. maybe above average, but probably not in the top 10 of anyones list and consistently a disappointment when he went head to head with the other aces in the league. So, he wins 19 games and gets Cleveland to the playoffs in 2007. All we needed was ONE fvcking good game against the RedSox out of 2 and they probably go to the World Series. That is after he sucked against the Yankees in the first round. he was flat out awful all 3 games. And we call him the best pitcher in baseball? What the hell our standards these days? 15 game winner with an ERA of 3.5 and we're the BEST?

fast forward to April 2008. The big fat man can't find the strike zone all of April and half of May in Clevleand. He helps contribute to the slide of the team that can't be overcome. ACE? He lost a 1-0 decision in that span against the NYY. OVERRATED!

He goes to the NL where the batters haven't faced his fast ball day in and day out for the last 6 years and guess what... he helps take the Brewers to the playoffs. Yea for the big fat man that had nothing but nice things to say about Milwaukee except they didn't have enough money to feed his big fat gut. Then what happens.... GRAND SLAM and Milky loses to the Phils in the playoffs. CHOKE CHOKE CHOKE CHOKE

BEST pitcher in Basebal? WHEN? WHERE? What am i missing.

How many times did he get hurt in the first month of the season in Cleveland. I think at least twice when he had to go on the DL for probably 15 games. Lack of conditioning?

Fat, greedy, and overarated? YES YES YES

Above average pitcher and #1 on most teams - Yep.

BEST pitcher in baseball- not yet and probably never

Some very valid points but he is 117-73 in his career which is more than just a couple of good years...and some of those Indian teams weren;t very good.

I was never a big CC fan until the end of this year. Having never really followed him, and certainly not as much as you, all I saw was the hat not on straight and the weight which gave me 'this is a guy off the street that doesn't care'...it was stereotyping to the max and I was wrong. What he did for Milwaukee made me a fan...he put the team first and all the reports from the press that you read about him is that he is a really good clubhouse guy too. I think he is a top 5 pitcher...240+ innings the last 2 yrs, 190+ in 6 out of 7...he is a gamer right now in my book.

Now, if he signs this huge contract and then goes Carl Pavano on us, that's a whole different story!

[Three Jack]

He may believe in contracts over 100K, but if my math is correct, 145 million is a lot higher than 103 million.

Your math is 100% accurate..but some would say the additional $42 million over 6 yrs is worth the confidence of knowing what you are getting. The larger point was giving 6 yrs to a starting pitcher.

[BettorsChat]

You're right times have changed. Humans are bigger, faster and stronger than decades ago. Training is better. Dieting is better. They train year round.

The game is pussified. You don't think a modern day pitcher such as Sabathia can be conditioned to throw 350 innings? BTW 350 doesn't crack the top-500 (yes 500) MLB record for innings throw in a season. For anyone to suggest that CC will break down next season because he threw 350 innings is naive. There's no correlation between innings pitched and breaking down. There's dozens of pitchers that break down with very limited innings. Prior to this season Rich Harden has pitched 71 innings the last two seasons combined. Kerry Wood has thrown about 175 innings over the last 4 seasons. It boils down to mechanics.

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uestion: What is the Average Height for an Adult Male?

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Question: What is the Average Weight for an Adult Man?

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* 189.8 pounds

[savage1]

Your math is 100% accurate..but some would say the additional $42 million over 6 yrs is worth the confidence of knowing what you are getting. The larger point was giving 6 yrs to a starting pitcher.

Lets put it this way:
The Yankees are a special case, and money is no big deal.
However, if I was the GM of another team and had to choose between signing an everyday superstar to a year contract worth 145 million or ANY pitcher for same amount and time frame, I would choose the superstar signing 99.99% of the time(the .01 exception being if God decided to descend from Heaven and take his shot at pitching).

[frankb03]

He may believe in contracts over 100K, but if my math is correct, 145 million is a lot higher than 103 million.
I think Theo is smart enough to draw the line somewhere unlike CASHman(what a fitting name for the gm of the Yankees).

20/20 hindsight.

Let's see

100 million for an untested pitcher

145 million for an established pitcher.

In my book Theo took a major gamble that paid off.

At the time it was reported they overbid because they didn't want Dice-K to sign with the Yanks.

[savage1]

20/20 hindsight.

Let's see

100 million for an untested pitcher

145 million for an established pitcher.

In my book Theo took a major gamble that paid off.

At the time it was reported they overbid because they didn't want Dice-K to sign with the Yanks.

It worked because Theo is a much shrewder and astute GM than is Cashman and knows how to budget his money. Perhaps the Sox organization at this point is a better judge of talent and value than are the Yankees organization.
I still think there is a huge difference in offering 145 million as opposed to 100 million.
I don't see Theo getting into a bidding war for Sabathia-that in itself tells me something about his worth-I trust Theo's judgment.

[Three Jack]

It worked because Theo is a much shrewder and astute GM than is Cashman and knows how to budget his money.
I still think there is a huge difference in offering 145 million as opposed to 100 million.
I don't see Theo getting into a bidding war for Sabathia-that in itself tells me something about his worth-I trust Theo's judgment.

Savy, please stop drinking the gatorade...this move worked because he flat out out bid everyone. Shrewd? Budget money? Overall is his head and shoulders better than Cahsman but this worked because they OUTBID everyone and for no other reason. You may say that he put all his eggs in one basket but if Cashman knew $51 million was in the enevelop, then Cashman would have gone to $52 million...it had zero to do with being more astute.

[Three Jack]

It worked because Theo is a much shrewder and astute GM than is Cashman and knows how to budget his money. Perhaps the Sox organization at this point is a better judge of talent and value than are the Yankees organization.
I still think there is a huge difference in offering 145 million as opposed to 100 million.
I don't see Theo getting into a bidding war for Sabathia-that in itself tells me something about his worth-I trust Theo's judgment.

btw, he CAN'T get into a bidding war for Sabathia...he doesn't have the budget NOR the need, it has nothing to do with Theo's judgement....

[savage1]

Savy, please stop drinking the gatorade...this move worked because he flat out out bid everyone. Shrewd? Budget money? Overall is his head and shoulders better than Cahsman but this worked because they OUTBID everyone and for no other reason. You may say that he put all his eggs in one basket but if Cashman knew $51 million was in the enevelop, then Cashman would have gone to $52 million...it had zero to do with being more astute.

All I know is that since 2000 the Yankees have had the highest payroll of any team in the majors, and what has it gotten them? Does that not indicate something about the organization and their GM?
Many Yankee fans have been clamoring for Cashman to be fired for a few years now, and I can understand why.

[savage1]

btw, he CAN'T get into a bidding war for Sabathia...he doesn't have the budget NOR the need, it has nothing to do with Theo's judgement....

I can't prove it, but I seriously doubt Sox would EVER offer Sabathia 145 million under any circumstances;he would rather let Cashman piss away his money and instead budget his money more prudently.

[Three Jack]

All I know is that since 2000 the Yankees have had the highest payroll of any team in the majors, and what has it gotten them? Does that not indicate something about the organization and their GM?
Many Yankee fans have been clamoring for Cashman to be fired for a few years now, and I can understand why.

Savy, that isn't up for debate...I agree with you and have said for 4 yrs now Cashman should get the ax...but to think for 1 second that Dice K is a Red Sox b/c Theo is more shrewd than Cashman is, imo, nuts. He flat out outbid them! that is not being shrewd. being shrewd is letting Damon and Pedro walk knowing that they were not worth the extra yr or the extra $2 million a year...that is shrewd.

[Three Jack]

I can't prove it, but I seriously doubt Sox would EVER offer Sabathia 145 million under any circumstances;he would rather let Cashman piss away his money and instead budget his money more prudently.

One last bit about Theo...I think he is one of the best GM's in baseball...but you want to talk about him being shrewd? He has PISSED away a ton of money on free agents. A TON!!! He has drafted and traded well, that is why they win...not so sure that qualifies as shrewd. He got Beckett because he traded away a future MVP- a trade that worked for both teams.

I'd be interested to hear Wayne's take on this.....