Chowd Nation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wayne1218]

Marc Stein

ESPN.com news services


Kevin Garnett gives Boston a new Big Three that brings the Celtics much closer to what their old Big Three delivered -- an NBA title.

The Celtics, who have 16 championships but have gone without one for more than two decades, obtained the former MVP and 10-time All-Star on Tuesday in a 7-for-1 deal -- the NBA's biggest trade for one player.

Boston sent the Minnesota Timberwolves forwards Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes and Gerald Green, guard Sebastian Telfair and center Theo Ratliff, two first-round draft picks and cash considerations. Besides Ratliff, 34, the other four are 24 or younger.

With Paul Pierce and Ray Allen already on the roster, the Celtics have been transformed from a promising collection of youngsters who had the NBA's second-worst record last season into an instant contender in the mediocre Eastern Conference.

"This is probably my best opportunity at winning a ring," Garnett said. "It was a no-brainer."

Garnett liked the idea so much he gave the Celtics something of a discount when he subsequently signed an extension.

[LVJimmy]

Amare Stoudamire for Garnett and people were saying Phoenix should do it. We give Jefferson and a bunch of bench players and people say we screwed up. That is WHACK!

No way would I give up Amare for KG...didn't understand that trade talk from the onset.

[tash]

All these ESPN Analyst seem to love it for Boston and i trust them over you guys!

your right ! Twolves-basically get nothing but Jefferson . Telfair will be gone-Green has potential- Gomes might stay as a back-up -Ratliff is gone - the two late round picks will become a non-factor....you do the math ? Another great deal for McHale ?

[LVJimmy]

your right ! Twolves-basically get nothing but Jefferson . Telfair will be gone-Green has potential- Gomes might stay as a back-up -Ratliff is gone - the two late round picks will become a non-factor....you do the math ? Another great deal for McHale ?

Isn't Minnesota getting it's own pick back and considering how bad they're gonna suck, it should be a top 5 pick?

[wayne1218]

By Bill Simmons
Page 2


During Kevin McHale's 13-year career in Boston, he helped the Celtics capture three championships, redefined the lost art of low-post play, defended everyone from Bernard King to Andrew Toney to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and peaked as the best power forward alive in 1986 and '87. I loved watching him, I loved rooting for him and, most of all, I loved him for risking his career in the '87 playoffs by playing on a broken foot. Boston ended up losing the NBA Finals in six and his career was never quite the same. To this day, he walks with a slight limp. To this day, he says he'd do it again.

When we raised McHale's No. 32 to the rafters, naturally, we assumed his last great Boston moment happened in a '93 playoff series against Charlotte, when McHale reached back in time and tortured the Hornets down low for 35 unfathomable points in Game 2. The Garden was rocking, McHale was moving like the old McHale and everything seemed right with the world again. It was one of those ESPN Classic games that you knew you'd always remember even as it was happening. And if that had been his last great act for the Celtics, I would have been fine with it.


Fast-forward to 2007. The Celtics haven't mattered in 15 years. We've won three playoff series since McHale retired. We've had three above-.500 seasons. We've had terrible front-office executives and terrible coaches, people who were so horrendous at their jobs it almost defied belief. We've had a whopping two All-Stars, neither of whom was a top-10 player (although they were paid like it). Quite simply, we've sucked. Even worse, the people running the team were panicking like a teenage couple waiting for the results of a pregnancy test, culminating in last month's bizarre decision to trade the No. 5 pick for Ray Allen. We were stuck in no man's land, just good enough to make the playoffs, just young enough that we weren't making noise, and by the time our young guys matured, Allen would have been finished. For the past four weeks, I've probably been the angriest I've ever been at my favorite team.

But here's what I wasn't counting on …

Our old friend Kevin McHale.

My NBA guide claims that McHale retired from the Celtics in 1993, but apparently that's a misprint. How else could you explain his decision to trade Kevin Garnett to Boston for the Al Jefferson pu pu platter deluxe? Just five weeks ago, McHale and Minnesota couldn't close a potential deal in which they received Jefferson and Boston's No. 5 pick. Now? They're settling for Jefferson (a potential franchise player), Ryan Gomes (an intangibles guy who's useless on a bad team), Bassy Telfair (a year away from signing in Italy), Gerald Green (a homeless man's J.R. Smith), Theo Ratliff's expiring deal, a 2009 lottery-protected No. 1 pick (congrats on picking in the mid-20s) and the return of Minny's future No. 1 that was stupidly included in the Ricky Davis/Mark Blount-Wally Szczerbiak trade.

Basically, McHale traded one of the best 25 players ever -- at the tail end of his prime!!! -- for Jefferson (a free agent in two years), one year of Gomes (a free agent in '08, when he'll be leaving treadmarks on his way out of Minnesota), a harmless pick and a do-over for a pick he never should have traded. Last month, McHale walked away from the No. 5 pick in the deal. This month, he couldn't even get Boston to throw in Rajon Rondo.

And honestly? I'm flabbergasted. I was vehemently against trading Jefferson and the No. 5 for KG, only because losing Jefferson wouldn't have been worth competing with two top-25 guys and a roster too young to do anything around them (as well as Doc Rivers coaching that very same team). Now? They have three All-Stars -- KG, Allen and Paul Pierce -- who rank in the top-six at their respective positions. Assuming KG and Allen have 2-3 quality seasons in them, that gives the Celts pole position in the atrocious Eastern Conference for 2008 and 2009, especially if they luck out with one more free-agent signing and an in-season veteran pickup.

Now here's where it gets really good: Pierce, Allen and Garnett happen to be wired the exact same way -- three ultracompetitive guys nearing the end of their primes who would sacrifice anything to play on a winner. All of them were stuck in miserable situations last season (combined record: 87-159), all of them are good guys, all of them understand that you only have so many chances to contend. For all three guys, it will be their best team ever, regardless of who's playing with them. Allen hasn't played with a top-20 player his entire career; neither has Pierce; and Garnett hasn't played with one elite scorer, much less two. For Garnett, his major weakness (crunch-time scoring) gets solved with two proven crunch-time scorers helping him. For Pierce, his major weakness (leadership) gets obscured because he has two intense veterans who know how to deal with the media and lead by example. For Allen, his weakness (a tendency to break down) gets negated because he won't have to carry his team offensively every night.



THREE NOTES
Three notes I couldn't fit into the column:

1. One sad part of the trade -- poor Al Jefferson getting exiled to Minnesota to play for an awful team in a tough conference loaded with good power forwards, and if that's not bad enough, he has to play with Ricky Davis and Mark Blount again and replace the most popular player in T-Wolves history. Yikes. With that said, I still think he's a potential franchise player.

2. Word on the street is that Pierce lobbied KG relentlessly over the past four weeks to change his mind about coming to Boston. And it worked. Two other things helped: The Allen trade increasing Boston's playoff chances, and Phoenix/Chicago refusing to blow their teams up for KG. So if you're scoring at home, black guys do want to play in Boston -- as long as it's for a playoff contender and they have no other options.

3. Chicago fans, you should be bummed -- KG would have ended up in Chicago if John Paxson had simply rolled over P.J. Brown's expiring deal last February for a 2008 expiring deal to preserve that cap number (like Phoenix wouldn't have been interested???).

Just think of these three guys thrown together. All three carried playoff teams further than they should have gone: Pierce in 2002, Garnett in 2004, Allen in 2005. All three were on suicide watch as recently as six weeks ago, wondering how they could extract themselves from untenable (and unwinnable) situations. All three are about to become relevant again in April, May and June. Would you bet against them having monster seasons? Would you bet against them embarking on a 100-game mission to make the Finals? Hell, have three star teammates ever had more to prove in one season?

[tash]

No way would I give up Amare for KG...didn't understand that trade talk from the onset.

I believe it was Marion...not Amare .....that was all talk, because KG and Nash are buddies...

[wayne1218]

your right ! Twolves-basically get nothing but Jefferson . Telfair will be gone-Green has potential- Gomes might stay as a back-up -Ratliff is gone - the two late round picks will become a non-factor....you do the math ? Another great deal for McHale ?

Exactly and i'll ask AGAIN ... What was "Too Much" that we gave up? Anybody??

[wayne1218]

I believe it was Marion...not Amare .....that was all talk, because KG and Nash are buddies...

Amare was talked about too.

[tash]

By Bill Simmons
Page 2


During Kevin McHale's 13-year career in Boston, he helped the Celtics capture three championships, redefined the lost art of low-post play, defended everyone from Bernard King to Andrew Toney to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and peaked as the best power forward alive in 1986 and '87. I loved watching him, I loved rooting for him and, most of all, I loved him for risking his career in the '87 playoffs by playing on a broken foot. Boston ended up losing the NBA Finals in six and his career was never quite the same. To this day, he walks with a slight limp. To this day, he says he'd do it again.

When we raised McHale's No. 32 to the rafters, naturally, we assumed his last great Boston moment happened in a '93 playoff series against Charlotte, when McHale reached back in time and tortured the Hornets down low for 35 unfathomable points in Game 2. The Garden was rocking, McHale was moving like the old McHale and everything seemed right with the world again. It was one of those ESPN Classic games that you knew you'd always remember even as it was happening. And if that had been his last great act for the Celtics, I would have been fine with it.


Fast-forward to 2007. The Celtics haven't mattered in 15 years. We've won three playoff series since McHale retired. We've had three above-.500 seasons. We've had terrible front-office executives and terrible coaches, people who were so horrendous at their jobs it almost defied belief. We've had a whopping two All-Stars, neither of whom was a top-10 player (although they were paid like it). Quite simply, we've sucked. Even worse, the people running the team were panicking like a teenage couple waiting for the results of a pregnancy test, culminating in last month's bizarre decision to trade the No. 5 pick for Ray Allen. We were stuck in no man's land, just good enough to make the playoffs, just young enough that we weren't making noise, and by the time our young guys matured, Allen would have been finished. For the past four weeks, I've probably been the angriest I've ever been at my favorite team.

But here's what I wasn't counting on …

Our old friend Kevin McHale.

My NBA guide claims that McHale retired from the Celtics in 1993, but apparently that's a misprint. How else could you explain his decision to trade Kevin Garnett to Boston for the Al Jefferson pu pu platter deluxe? Just five weeks ago, McHale and Minnesota couldn't close a potential deal in which they received Jefferson and Boston's No. 5 pick. Now? They're settling for Jefferson (a potential franchise player), Ryan Gomes (an intangibles guy who's useless on a bad team), Bassy Telfair (a year away from signing in Italy), Gerald Green (a homeless man's J.R. Smith), Theo Ratliff's expiring deal, a 2009 lottery-protected No. 1 pick (congrats on picking in the mid-20s) and the return of Minny's future No. 1 that was stupidly included in the Ricky Davis/Mark Blount-Wally Szczerbiak trade.

Basically, McHale traded one of the best 25 players ever -- at the tail end of his prime!!! -- for Jefferson (a free agent in two years), one year of Gomes (a free agent in '08, when he'll be leaving treadmarks on his way out of Minnesota), a harmless pick and a do-over for a pick he never should have traded. Last month, McHale walked away from the No. 5 pick in the deal. This month, he couldn't even get Boston to throw in Rajon Rondo.

And honestly? I'm flabbergasted. I was vehemently against trading Jefferson and the No. 5 for KG, only because losing Jefferson wouldn't have been worth competing with two top-25 guys and a roster too young to do anything around them (as well as Doc Rivers coaching that very same team). Now? They have three All-Stars -- KG, Allen and Paul Pierce -- who rank in the top-six at their respective positions. Assuming KG and Allen have 2-3 quality seasons in them, that gives the Celts pole position in the atrocious Eastern Conference for 2008 and 2009, especially if they luck out with one more free-agent signing and an in-season veteran pickup.

Now here's where it gets really good: Pierce, Allen and Garnett happen to be wired the exact same way -- three ultracompetitive guys nearing the end of their primes who would sacrifice anything to play on a winner. All of them were stuck in miserable situations last season (combined record: 87-159), all of them are good guys, all of them understand that you only have so many chances to contend. For all three guys, it will be their best team ever, regardless of who's playing with them. Allen hasn't played with a top-20 player his entire career; neither has Pierce; and Garnett hasn't played with one elite scorer, much less two. For Garnett, his major weakness (crunch-time scoring) gets solved with two proven crunch-time scorers helping him. For Pierce, his major weakness (leadership) gets obscured because he has two intense veterans who know how to deal with the media and lead by example. For Allen, his weakness (a tendency to break down) gets negated because he won't have to carry his team offensively every night.



THREE NOTES
Three notes I couldn't fit into the column:

1. One sad part of the trade -- poor Al Jefferson getting exiled to Minnesota to play for an awful team in a tough conference loaded with good power forwards, and if that's not bad enough, he has to play with Ricky Davis and Mark Blount again and replace the most popular player in T-Wolves history. Yikes. With that said, I still think he's a potential franchise player.

2. Word on the street is that Pierce lobbied KG relentlessly over the past four weeks to change his mind about coming to Boston. And it worked. Two other things helped: The Allen trade increasing Boston's playoff chances, and Phoenix/Chicago refusing to blow their teams up for KG. So if you're scoring at home, black guys do want to play in Boston -- as long as it's for a playoff contender and they have no other options.

3. Chicago fans, you should be bummed -- KG would have ended up in Chicago if John Paxson had simply rolled over P.J. Brown's expiring deal last February for a 2008 expiring deal to preserve that cap number (like Phoenix wouldn't have been interested???).

Just think of these three guys thrown together. All three carried playoff teams further than they should have gone: Pierce in 2002, Garnett in 2004, Allen in 2005. All three were on suicide watch as recently as six weeks ago, wondering how they could extract themselves from untenable (and unwinnable) situations. All three are about to become relevant again in April, May and June. Would you bet against them having monster seasons? Would you bet against them embarking on a 100-game mission to make the Finals? Hell, have three star teammates ever had more to prove in one season?

good stuff !

[Three Jack]

Exactly and i'll ask AGAIN ... What was "Too Much" that we gave up? Anybody??

$19 million in cap space after this year. I know you knwo this better than anybody but NBA trades are not judged on talent for talent.

Again, I think this is a very good trade for the Celtics, but McHale backed himself in to a corner and got himself as good a deal as he could get.

IMO, the Celtics got the better end of this, but it is not as one sided as some think.

[wayne1218]

$19 million in cap space after this year. I know you knwo this better than anybody but NBA trades are not judged on talent for talent.

Again, I think this is a very good trade for the Celtics, but McHale backed himself in to a corner and got himself as good a deal as he could get.

IMO, the Celtics got the better end of this, but it is not as one sided as some think.

Seriously, i could care less about cap space and they will fill their veteran PG need with their exemption money. What has cap space brought us in the last 20 years? Nothing.

[wayne1218]

$19 million in cap space after this year. I know you knwo this better than anybody but NBA trades are not judged on talent for talent.

Again, I think this is a very good trade for the Celtics, but McHale backed himself in to a corner and got himself as good a deal as he could get.

IMO, the Celtics got the better end of this, but it is not as one sided as some think.

P.S. We gave up 12 million with Ratliff. What were we getting for that? Nothing.

[tash]

Exactly and i'll ask AGAIN ... What was "Too Much" that we gave up? Anybody??

i already said you right ?

[Three Jack]

Seriously, i could care less about cap space and they will fill their veteran PG need with their exemption money. What has cap space brought us in the last 20 years? Nothing.

That is the way you and the rest of Celtic nation feel and rightfully so, but Minny had to get rid of Garnett because they were going nowhere with him and the cap space meant EVERYTHING to them.

It may not have gotten the Celtics anything in the last 20 yrs but not every team mismanages their cap space the way the Knicks and Celtics have.

[wayne1218]

i already said you right ?

That was for LVjimmy & TMAC!