Who Has the 2nd Best 1-2 Punch in Baseball?

[wayne1218]

Never said to disregard it. I simply find it a more valuable tool in evaluating a pitcher than wins.

Point being:

Grienke
Cain
Haren
Carpenter
Lincecum

vs.

Beckett
Marquis
Wainright
Cain
Wakefield


Which group would you rather have in your rotation?

You are something else mavs. I love how you chose Tim Wakefield over Johan Santana, Roy Halladay or Tim Lincecum for your list when they are all tied for 2nd in wins. Nice selective choosing there mavs. Ughhh

I'm done playing tonight man. Time to visit with the wife and watch some baseball.

[mavskidd02]

You are something else mavs. I love how you chose Tim Wakefield over Johan Santana, Roy Halladay or Tim Lincecum for your list when they are all tied for 2nd in wins. Nice selective choosing there mavs. Ughhh

I'm done playing tonight man. Time to visit with the wife and watch some baseball.

Never even meant to, I went strictly off this list

MLB Baseball Pitching Statistics and League Leaders - Major League Baseball - ESPN

I'm just about done too. As usual, we agree to disagree. Have a good one.

[wayne1218]

Never even meant to, I went strictly off this list

MLB Baseball Pitching Statistics and League Leaders - Major League Baseball - ESPN

I'm just about done too. As usual, we agree to disagree. Have a good one.

Sure you didn't. If you went off the list, you would not have skipped over the 5th name (Roy Halladay) to get to Wakefield.

[mavskidd02]

[wayne1218]

I'm smarter than you think. Someday you'll realize that.

[mavskidd02]

I'm smarter than you think. Someday you'll realize that.

Don't worry, I never underestimated you.

Have a good night.

These arguments never get old.

[wayne1218]

Don't worry, I never underestimated you.

Have a good night.

These arguments never get old.

Arguments, Debates, Discussions ... It's all good, that's what these forums are about.

[frankb03]

I don't believe W/L records is a fair indicator either. Run support plays a huge roll and so do bullpens in whether or not a player gets a W or an L.

I agree. However, the records I posted are the team's record in the games pitched and not the pitchers record. That's also why I posted the comparison in the teams game with those 2 starter and in the other games for the team.

Using Boston as an example:

Red Sox 28-12 with Beckett and Lester pitching while they are 30-29 for other starters. IMO it's fair to assume over the long haul run support is evenly distributed. Same with the bull pen. Over the long haul I believe the Red Sox relieves blow equal amount of saves for Beckett/Lester as they do for the team's other starters.

The bottom line. Better pitchers are more consistent. They keep they're team in more games. Giving their team a better chance at winning.

I have to agree with Wayne on another point. AL ERA will naturally be higher than NL with the DH. I don't think there's any disputing that point.

[frankb03]

I don't believe W/L records is a fair indicator either. Run support plays a huge roll and so do bullpens in whether or not a player gets a W or an L. At least with ERA, you are judging solely that pitcher's performance. Nothing more, nothing less.

At the All-Star Break Wakefield had 10+ wins, more than any other in the Al (I believe). Is that to say he's the best pitcher in the AL? Certainly not, he's not even the best on his own team.

Mavs you have to ask yourself. Why are the Red Sox +16 games with Beckett/Lester and +1 with other starters? Are you saying only Beckett/Lester get run support and the Bosox relievers don't blow saves for them? Good pitchers also pitch deeper into the game minimizing exposure to the bullpen.

[frankb03]

Phillies Moyer/Hamels 24/16 others 34-25

Even with an impressive team record I wouldn't rank Moyer/Hamels above some of the other previously listed teams. The Phillies as a whole are 9 games over 500 in games not involving Moyer/Hamels.

[yankee]

how about phills with hamels an now lee

[magrnnl]

SF has the best 1-2 Punch with Tim and Matt

[mavskidd02]

I agree. However, the records I posted are the team's record in the games pitched and not the pitchers record. That's also why I posted the comparison in the teams game with those 2 starter and in the other games for the team.

Using Boston as an example:

Red Sox 28-12 with Beckett and Lester pitching while they are 30-29 for other starters. IMO it's fair to assume over the long haul run support is evenly distributed. Same with the bull pen. Over the long haul I believe the Red Sox relieves blow equal amount of saves for Beckett/Lester as they do for the team's other starters.

The bottom line. Better pitchers are more consistent. They keep they're team in more games. Giving their team a better chance at winning.

I have to agree with Wayne on another point. AL ERA will naturally be higher than NL with the DH. I don't think there's any disputing that point.

Agree 100%.

Mavs you have to ask yourself. Why are the Red Sox +16 games with Beckett/Lester and +1 with other starters? Are you saying only Beckett/Lester get run support and the Bosox relievers don't blow saves for them? Good pitchers also pitch deeper into the game minimizing exposure to the bullpen.

No doubt they are great pitchers. Never would say they weren't. My point was that wins and losses don't always tell the whole story. Nothing more, nothing less.

[wayne1218]

How about Buehrle/Peavy?