Who Has the 2nd Best 1-2 Punch in Baseball?

[frankb03]

Going by strictly ERA of these two starters:

1. St. Louis
2. ATLANTA
3. Detroit
4. NYY
5. Boston
6. Tampa Bay
7. Chicago

I don't believe using ERA is a fair indicator. Each ball park is different. Cards and Braves give up almost 1/2 more on the road than at home. Tigers allow 1 more run on road vs. at home.

[wayne1218]

I don't believe using ERA is a fair indicator. Each ball park is different. Cards and Braves give up almost 1/2 more on the road than at home. Tigers allow 1 more run on road vs. at home.

NL Pitchers face a pitcher and AL Pitchers face a DH. That makes a big difference in your era too.

[mavskidd02]

I don't believe using ERA is a fair indicator. Each ball park is different. Cards and Braves give up almost 1/2 more on the road than at home. Tigers allow 1 more run on road vs. at home.

I don't believe W/L records is a fair indicator either. Run support plays a huge roll and so do bullpens in whether or not a player gets a W or an L. At least with ERA, you are judging solely that pitcher's performance. Nothing more, nothing less.

At the All-Star Break Wakefield had 10+ wins, more than any other in the Al (I believe). Is that to say he's the best pitcher in the AL? Certainly not, he's not even the best on his own team.

[casheasy]

Now it's the Phillies with Hamels and Lee
Philly's ratcheting it up for a playoff run. Now it's up to the dodgers to match it with some huge package for Halladay.

[wayne1218]

At the All-Star Break Wakefield had 10+ wins, more than any other in the Al (I believe). Is that to say he's the best pitcher in the AL? Certainly not, he's not even the best on his own team.

He was tied for the most wins with Beckett and yes, Beckett may be the best in the AL

[mavskidd02]

He was tied for the most wins with Beckett and yes, Beckett may be the best in the AL

Exactly, proves my point. Beckett and Wakefield tied for wins. If we are basing things on wins, this shows they are equal pitchers. And obviously, they are not. Beckett is twice as good. And if you look at ERAs over this season and last, it will prove that.

[wayne1218]

Exactly, proves my point. Beckett and Wakefield tied for wins. If we are basing things on wins, this shows they are equal pitchers. And obviously, they are not. Beckett is twice as good. And if you look at ERAs over this season and last, it will prove that.

K's, WHIP, BB, IP


Why focus on one thing, Era? Why? Because that is the one you chose. They are ALL part of the reason Beckett is a better pitcher. Not just Era

[mavskidd02]

K's, WHIP, BB, IP


Why focus on one thing, Era? Why? Because that is the one you chose. They are ALL part of the reason Beckett is a better pitcher. Not just Era

What? My point is that ERA judges pitchers better than a W/L record. I could care less about Beckett and Wake. I was using them as an example.

[wayne1218]

What? My point is that ERA judges pitchers better than a W/L record. I could care less about Beckett and Wake. I was using them as an example.

Yes, you were also matching AL era's against NL Era's and that in itself is a joke if you don't put a BIG * next to it based on a DH vs a P hitting. Not even comparable because of that.

[kbsooner21]

Yes, you were also matching AL era's against NL Era's and that in itself is a joke if you don't put a BIG * next to it based on a DH vs a P hitting. Not even comparable because of that.

AL teams don't have to face Big Z!!!!

[mavskidd02]

Yes, you were also matching AL era's against NL Era's and that in itself is a joke if you don't put a BIG * next to it based on a DH vs a P hitting. Not even comparable because of that.

Even with that, ERA still proves to be a better measuring stick.

Jamie Moyer has 10 wins with an ERA over 5. Carpenter has 9 wins with an ERA near 2. Who's the better pitcher?

[wayne1218]

Even with that, ERA still proves to be a better measuring stick.

That is just absurd. A high priced DH vs a lame ass pitcher changes EVERYTHING in a lineup and it is 11% of the batting order. You are living on Fantasy Island if you don't think there is a HUGE difference there when judging pitchers.

[wayne1218]

Jamie Moyer has 10 wins with an ERA over 5. Carpenter has 9 wins with an ERA near 2. Who's the better pitcher?

Jaime Moyer pitches for the WS Champions and they won the WS because they have 1 of the best lineups in baseball. Carpenter is obviously the better pitcher and if he pitched in Philly, he would probably be (14-1).

[wayne1218]

AL teams don't have to face Big Z!!!!

I can see why. Batting .220 with a OB % of .235 with 3 HR's. 7 RBI's and 21 K's in 50 AB's.

WoW ... that's scary!!!

That's kinda my point. He's one of the best Hitting pitchers in the NL and still, look at those numbers.

[mavskidd02]

That is just absurd. A high priced DH vs a lame ass pitcher changes EVERYTHING in a lineup and it is 11% of the batting order. You are living on Fantasy Island if you don't think there is a HUGE difference there when judging pitchers.

I never said there wasn't a huge difference. Jesus Christ, read what I wrote. Two guys BOTH pitching in the same league. BOTH. One has an ERA above five, the other has one near two. The guy with a 5+ ERA has more wins. This proves in point that wins ultimately mean nothing. They prove nothing about a pitcher.

Or did Jamie Moyer and Carpenter start pitching in different leagues? You tell me.