Reasons for Collapse of Red Sox

[wayne1218]

Let me jump in. I love getting to parties late.

Boston is the only top team in baseball with weak starting pitching. They've overcome it with their offense and Papelbohn.

In fact, pitching in baseball has been very good this year. Milwaukee is where they are because they have four outstanding starters. SF's pitching kept them alive despite one of the worst offenses in memory.

Phila's pitching staff is as good as any in the history of the game. (lee, Halladay, Hamels, Oswalt and Worley---as good a starting five as I can recall).

Detroit's pitching is very good and Verlander is a freak.

Boston made a grave error in not finding another starter.

BUT.....you Red Sox guys are way too negative. They are still better than 50-50 to make the playoffs. If they get there, anything can happen.

Sometimes fans of strong, but underachieving, teams take success for granted. How'd you like to live in Pittsburgh?

Or Chicago?

Or Seattle?

Or be a Mets fan?

You guys are in a pennant race. Try to enjoy it.

It's about expectations gris. When your team salary is over 160 million, you expect more. When John Lackey is the 2nd highest paid player on your team, you expect A LOT more. If i lived in Pittsburgh and saw they had a 45 million payroll, i wouldn't expect much. You can walk up to the gate and watch a baseball game at face value. Here, you have to pay $100-$150 for a nose bleed seat with obstructed views. That payroll is pushed on to the fans and you expect to get what you pay for. I think they still get in but if they don't, it will be the biggest September collapse in MLB History, hence the thread title. We know what it's like to be the Cubs. Remember, we lived it for 86 years before 2004 but when ownership came in and said expect more and won 2 WS, we expect more.

[wayne1218]

Wins for a pitcher is a terrible barometer of how good that pitcher is. Anyone who defends a pitcher based on wins really has no clue about baseball.

I assumed every Tom, Dick and Harry knew that Jimmy. Apparently some do not.

[robby_morini]

Dimer, savage, rob .... are we all just blind to what we see on the field giz or is it simply that we don't know because we didn't play the game at a high enough level?

I played small college ball, and still play in an "old man's" league, as a matter of fact we had a game tonight. I would say that I know the game very well. What I don't know, or understand is the mentality of some of these MLB players.

We play(ed) the game because it was fun, but we play(ed) to win. Most every coach I played for would have benched Lackey the last two games; not only because his ERA is not what is expected from a MLB player, but also because his attitude is detrimental to the team. I don't see much difference in the way we play(ed) the game and the way MLB players play the game. Screw the ego, the guy is a bad seed, plus he has no game.

As far as ERA and stats are concerned, people much smarter than I have a formula that is universally accepted as the best way to gauge a MLB pitcher. If Paps or Bard had a 10-0 record and 4 saves, they haven't done their job. In this case, a W is not necessarily a good thing. The fact that Lackey has 12 wins is misleading as far as his performance is concerned; he has been very lucky. Lets see what those 12 wins and high ERA do in the free agent market. My guess is that Lackey will retire before he will start for another MLB team.

No disrespect to anyone, just the way I see it

[savage1]

I played small college ball, and still play in an "old man's" league, as a matter of fact we had a game tonight. I would say that I know the game very well. What I don't know, or understand is the mentality of some of these MLB players.

We play(ed) the game because it was fun, but we play(ed) to win. Most every coach I played for would have benched Lackey the last two games; not only because his ERA is not what is expected from a MLB player, but also because his attitude is detrimental to the team. I don't see much difference in the way we play(ed) the game and the way MLB players play the game. Screw the ego, the guy is a bad seed, plus he has no game.

As far as ERA and stats are concerned, people much smarter than I have a formula that is universally accepted as the best way to gauge a MLB pitcher. If Paps or Bard had a 10-0 record and 4 saves, they haven't done their job. In this case, a W is not necessarily a good thing. The fact that Lackey has 12 wins is misleading as far as his performance is concerned; he has been very lucky. Lets see what those 12 wins and high ERA do in the free agent market. My guess is that Lackey will retire before he will start for another MLB team.

No disrespect to anyone, just the way I see it

I agree and said essentially the same thing in post 117.

[kbsooner21]

The horse is beyond dead and is now decomposing

[jcindaville]

The horse is beyond dead and is now decomposing

Wow, no shit!

[wayne1218]

The horse is beyond dead and is now decomposing

Isn't it a talk forum kb? You complain when nobody is talking and then when a thread heats up you want that to stop too? Instead of finding pictures and posting this, why not just give your opinion on the ongoing discussion? That would probably take less time. I expect it from jc but you start your share of conversation threads. Try joining in on somebody else'

[kbsooner21]

What else is there to add? You guys are saying the same damn thing over and over since page 2!

[kbsooner21]

Wayne: Lackey Sucks!!!

Gizmo: No he doesn't!!!


Repeat for 9 pages...

[wayne1218]

So what kb? Why read it then? Nobody shit on the poll thread after it and the game ended when you and bill couldn't let it go. You were not changing each others mind from the start either. I don't get what the big deal is, especially since several people, not just 2 have had opinions on it.

[kbsooner21]

So what kb? Why read it then? Nobody shit on the poll thread after it and the game ended when you and bill couldn't let it go. You were not changing each others mind from the start either. I don't get what the big deal is, especially since several people, not just 2 have had opinions on it.

Because we were havinga discussion, not measuring dicks..

[gizmo]

I cant believe I am posting in this thread again.

Hold on KB I never ever said Lackey doesnt suck either, I do think Lackey sucks.I also still dont think its his fault the Red Sox are losing games and I will never think its a pitcher that plays every 5 days at most the reason for a team to go 4-16.
That and he has a decent ERA in his wins no matter how many runs the offense scored is all I said but I am an idiot and don't know what i am talking about so.

GO TAMPA

[wayne1218]

Because we were havinga discussion, not measuring dicks..

You said yourself in that poll thread kb that you just couldn't let it go in one post. Well its because you are passionate about stoops and your team, just like some of us are with ours. Stop being a dick for no reason. Plenty of people are passionate about what they believe in, not just you. Nobody is hurting anybody here with this debate.

[wayne1218]

You should said go tampa giz cuz we know the yankees do not want to see boston in the postseason. I think the red sox had that series wrapped up in may. I don't blame you for that one.

[kbsooner21]

You should said go tampa giz cuz we know the yankees do not want to see boston in the postseason. I think the red sox had that series wrapped up in may. I don't blame you for that one.

Why would the Yanks not want to see Boston? On the verge of an epic collapse, they'd roll out the red carpet. If Boston makes it in it will be a shame. Taking up a spot a competitive team like TB or the angels could have.