Reasons for Collapse of Red Sox

[wayne1218]

He is the biggest flop on this team and the number one reason that the playoffs are in jeopardy.

1st off gizmo, he never said theo was the biggest problem. Read it again, and 2nd, you like his argument that states Lackey as the biggest problem in it???

I'm pretty fuckin sure that has been my point all along. God Damn!!!!!!!!!!

[diesel]

Gizmo the problem with your arguement is that 80% of pitchers in MLB would have 12 wins with the offense they have had most of the season. That is not good enough for someone making $72M and who was brought in at worst to be a number 3 starter and whose past pedigree in Los Angeles was someone who might not have been an elite pitcher but definitely considered a very good starter. His performance the last two years more so this year has been pathetic

[diesel]

There are a lot of pitchers in baseball if they pitched for the Red Sox this year would be 12 to 15 game winners. Same can be said for playing for the Yankees or Rangers. All three teams have scored an amazing amount of runs this year. IN all honesty on the Red Sox unless you are Beckett who got little to no run support on most nights and was facing the other teams top pitcher if you don't have 15 wins it means you haven't pitched well. I will guarntee you that Bucholz like Lester would have been between 15 to 20 wins with their offense which translates that the other guys especially Lackey since he has made all of his starts isn't worth a shit

[gizmo]

Wayne if you can stop urself from just pulling pieces out of a sentence and read and comprehend, than you will see the part where he says the only other culprit would be Theo and I said I would agree with Theo being the problem.

But again you cant comprehend. I also disagree with any other pitcher can do this or do that statements I dont get how you guys can say anyone because of the offense would do this or do that.

You have Bedard for 7 starts and his ERA is 3.6 and he is 1-2,you have a guy with a 5. ERA and he is 7-7 you cant just plug guys in and say they would win other than the top tier guys but you guys are still acting like this is fantasy baseball and can pick someone up to help ur ERA and Whip.

Diesel seeing as I cant get Wayne to answer any ?s but he likes to respond by pulling 1/2 a sentence out of a paragraph and make the same comment over and over can u please answer these .

1.When the Red Sox win 8-5 do you care what the starting pitchers ERA or WHIP is?

2. If your answer is Yes can you tell me why.

3. If your answer is No can you tell me why.

[BettorsChat]

The guy that wrote this article is a pure idiot. Where has he been for the last 10 years? Pitching sucks in MLB. There's not enough talent in that area for a long time. There's guys pitching in MLB that wouldn't or shouldn't be if you go back farther in time.

Injuries occur so what are you supposed to do? I believe that they have MLB trainers that do train the athletes. If they don't then they are morons. Dave Magadan as a pitching coach is a joke.

[gizmo]

I also never said he is earning his money ,I have said every time that he is stealing.

[wayne1218]

Wayne if you can stop urself from just pulling pieces out of a sentence and read and comprehend, than you will see the part where he says the only other culprit would be Theo and I said I would agree with Theo being the problem.

I pulled out the most important sentence, the one i have been arguing all along and when you say you agree that Theo was the biggest problem, you OBVIOUSLY missed it cuz he never said that. C'mon giz, it's all there in black & white.

[savage1]

As a Sox diehard and baseball fan since 1952 at age 2, I say it is sheer lunacy to even suggest that John Lackey is a good pitcher and it is beyond lunacy when you consider that contract.
To say he has won 12 games and not consider how many runs his teams has scored for him during most of those games is like glorifying a college kid who got an A on a term paper without considering that he paid someone to write it for him.
If one is hanging one's hat on the fact that he is an ok pitcher because he still won 12 games and is still a 500 pitcher(primarily because the team got him a big lead in many of those games), then by using the same "logic," should we say that at least for this season, Beckett is not that great a pitcher and/or brings bad luck to the team because they haven't scored a lot of runs for him?
One's era is and has always been one of the chief and rightful criterion to use in evaluating a pitcher-Lackey's is at the bottom-enuf said!
I have watched, seen personally and/or heard on the radio just about every one of Lackey's pitching performances since he came here-most of the time he has been awful and./or occasionally mediocre with very few good performances in an objective sense-in a relative sense to his absurd salary, he has had even fewer mediocre and outings which could be considered good and his awful ratings I would call atrocious.
I spend some time at the Red Sox forum and even more so of late for obvious reasons.
I have had some pretty intense arguments over there with some who differ with me philosphically about what has been ailing the Sox of late and who to blame and what should be done moving foward.
That said, out of those with whom I have the strongest disagreements, virtually everyone feels that Lackey is horrible and that the team should take whatever it does to get rid of this scourge.
When you couple that with his horrible attitude towards his teammates and manager by showing him up, the issue goes far beyond whether he is an adequate pitcher or not, which in essence means in many ways some not related to pitching ability only, he is a detriment to the team in every sense of the word.

[savage1]

The guy that wrote this article is a pure idiot. Where has he been for the last 10 years? Pitching sucks in MLB. There's not enough talent in that area for a long time. There's guys pitching in MLB that wouldn't or shouldn't be if you go back farther in time.

Injuries occur so what are you supposed to do? I believe that they have MLB trainers that do train the athletes. If they don't then they are morons. Dave Magadan as a pitching coach is a joke.

As I said at Sox forum, I believe lack of proper conditioning and/or lack or a proper excercise/stamina routine might be one of the reasons Sox have collapsed and that efforts should be made to examine/improve this during the off season.

[diesel]

Gizmo honestly I do care because as a Red Sox fan. My expectations of the team since 2003t is for them to win it all no more than this year. No matter how good your offense is you will not score those type of runs against top pitching (Verlander, Sabathia, Weaver, Haren, Price, Shields) so when I see a guy win 18-9 like that joker did earlier this week it does not excite me. You can get away with that against the likes of the Orioles, Royals, etc not against the tope teams in a playoff series

[diesel]

Now that I think about it he didn't even win the game he was pulled before 5 innings. The guy couldn't win with 18 runs of support enough said

[wayne1218]

Right on savage and diesel. You know, you watch the games and your eyes do not lie. And neither do his numbers!

[gizmo]

I have never and I don't think anyone else in all the posts has said Lackey is a good pitcher.

the injuries are nothing more than that, its not something you can examine, Johan santana ,Jose Reyes and david wright the 3 best players get hurt every year.

This year Longoria got hurt, A-Rod got hurt, Pujols got hur,Chipper always gets hurt. Sometimes teams just get more guys injured thats how it goes.

Also and last I am sick of hearing the statement that the RED SOX offense has bailed him out,first of all its a team game and they are suppose to try and outscore the other team not count on a shutout every time.

In lackeys 11 wins not counting his first win HIS ERA IS 3.67.

He also has 6 more games that he did not get a win but instead LOSTthem ALL where his ERA IS 3.29.

Thats 17 starts out of 27, So he has won 12 and given his team a chance to win 17 out of 27 starts.I know he is getting paid to be better in the other 10 starts but he is still not the reason they are losing.

Why isnt anyone talking about Bard he blew 1 lead that they ended up winning and 1 that the defense made an error,other than that he has 5 losses when they were tied and 3 more losses when he came in with the lead and blew the Hold or Save that they lost, How the Hell can the setup guy have 9 losses and another blown save on top of that that they lost the next inning.

[wayne1218]

Also and last I am sick of hearing the statement that the RED SOX offense has bailed him out,first of all its a team game and they are suppose to try and outscore the other team not count on a shutout every time.

Lackey is #1 in ALL of MLB in Run Support at 9.35 runs per game. That is a FACT .... but continue to ignore the facts and don't let them get in the way giz.

[wayne1218]

Why isnt anyone talking about Bard he blew 1 lead that they ended up winning and 1 that the defense made an error,other than that he has 5 losses when they were tied and 3 more losses when he came in with the lead and blew the Hold or Save that they lost, How the Hell can the setup guy have 9 losses and another blown save on top of that that they lost the next inning.

Are you really that stupid? Talk about a thick head. Probably cuz every person that has watched Boston all year knows that Bard had a very good season until a very recent stretch of bad outings. Lackey's bad outings started in April and continue today!