The takeover of California

[gbell]

as it should be. i mean isnt out of the country a bit further off than out of state. illegals shouldnt even be allowed to attend college or school or any of that.

if you want to be here do it legally. like the rest of us did.

What laws are they breaking? But my intentions are good and you want cheap lettuce so I can overwhelm your education systems, get free healthcare, get preferential treatments, and demand things even though I am breaking the law by being here ILLEGALLY!!! Cheap lettuce isn't worth that much to me!!!

[tkim11]

my point is simply he and the rest of the Libs dont ever offer a solution to anything they see as a problem......all they do is yack yack yack and never say what they will do to change anything. they have no solution....... i cant even debate something if i dont know what they stand for and what they will do/offer to fix the problems at hand.

Not a lib or a con. But I believe lib do yak yak yak and con just act rather than thinking then acting.

[gbell]

There is no blind eye buddy....They are here and they aren't going anywhere. Whine about it as much as you like, but they just aren't. That's the reality, and that's where I live. I prefer to figure out a reasonable solution. Educating them so they aren't such a tax burden is one solution....I'm done arguing here. I have to go to work now so I can pay my debt to the Iraqi's....Good luck to you

KAZ

Still waiting on a reasonale suggestion, let alone a solution.
Educate them how? Give them amnesty, so they crawl out of the wood work, and teach them to demand higher wages so they can pay taxes? Or educate them how to file taxes as a self-employed ILLEGAL on their 50 cent an hour wages keeping my lettuce cheap? Aren't we already EDUCATING them that it's easy to come here, make demands, get them, as well as free healthcare, government assistancel, drivers license, discounted college tuition etc. If that's not a great lesson, I don't know what is.

[KazDog]

"I have to go to work now so I can pay my debt to the ILLEGALS HERE "

You are right about that....I'd much rather pay money to a people that want to be here and want to work here, who give back to the economy, than ones who despise and hate our country.....

[tkim11]

then vote accordingly. And i ask you this. who says we arent winning??? what is winning??? you think having saddam out of power is a bad thing? you think having fee elections is a bad thing? you think having a constitution is a bad thing? you think letting women go to school and vote is a bad thing? all of these things would never be if we werent in iraq. but then again what do you care, all you want is to win. not to mention all you believe is the negative.

Then let me ask you this. Who's to say we are right and they are wrong. Our belief system is that all men/women are created equal, women should vote, etc.. But why are we forcing those to believe in our system? Is democracy the only measure of freedom and citizen's happiness? Why cant a country run by a dictator be considered a happy place to live? By our standards, a place run by dictatorship would suck. But who are we the judge? Who died and made us all right and knowing? Its just like in history re: the crusades, instead we are doing it in the name of democracy. Dont get me wrong. I love America. I love what it stands for and what we fight for. But I dont think we need to police the world and make everyone believe democracy is 'the way'

[kbsooner21]

"I have to go to work now so I can pay my debt to the ILLEGALS HERE "

You are right about that....I'd much rather pay money to a people that want to be here and want to work here, who give back to the economy, than ones who despise and hate our country.....

ask the women who get to go to school and vote now how much they hate our country. or all the people's lives we saved from being slain from saddam how much they hate our country. believe all the negative you want kaz

[gbell]

Thread has gotten a bit off topic with the war. This thread is about cheap lettuce, and Kaz's warm and fuzzy belief that breaking the law is okay as long as the ends justify the means; yet he won't give me any stats and he won't allow me to beat the shit out of him for his money so I can feed a family and educate them!!!!

[kbsooner21]

Thread has gotten a bit off topic with the war. This thread is about cheap lettuce, and Kaz's warm and fuzzy belief that breaking the law is okay as long as the ends justify the means; yet he won't give me any stats and he won't allow me to beat the shit out of him for his money so I can feed a family and educate them!!!!

omg.....

[TwoTonTony]

i have heard one solution that should be enforced....Fine the companies that hire the illegal immigrant workers...They are benefitting off the labor of these people and are the real criminals in my mind.....Of course the field worker will do whatever he has to do to survive.....It is not just field workers anymore...construction, restaurants, landscaping, manufacturing.....If we hit this problem at its root source then there will be no illegal jobs to have....The companies have to then decide to make cuts elsewhere to operate more efficiently to make it or not.....I know of pizza places that make good $$$ because they take in cash and do not report it.....Very easy to be successful that way.....Would they still be successful....Yes, but to a lesser degree....It takes a good plan to reduce costs and/or increase revenues to be competitive, but that is what an open market economy is....

[BUD GREGG]

Why Not Make An Arrangement With The Mexican Govert.......................we Determine The Cost Of Free Medical, Free Education And Any Other Social Services For Illegals From Mexico And Then Accept Reimbursement For The Cost In Oil And Gas Reserves From Mexico.............fair Trade Off

[The Lovedoc]

what is your solution??? that is the problem with you LIBS. you are quick to shoot your mouth but you never offer a solution. just like the war. all i heard was this "we need a new direction in iraq" my response is.....okay what do you say we do??? answer??? silence!!!!!! please give me something,anything.

Yeah, you're cool!!!

[STAMPEDE]

what a heated topic this is.everyone has an opinion, which is good. i listen alot to what people here and other places have to say about this subject, and then pick out what makes sence and seems fair and right to me. i hear that there are several towns in the usa, that cannot wait for the feds to decide what to do over the influx of people already here. so the mayors are taking matters into thier own hands because of the gangs and murders, and crime they are facing. what they are doing is fine any person 1000.00 a day for renting or housing an iligal, also fining any employer 1000 a day for hiring any iligal. we don't need to spend 200 billion on a fence. if they have no place to live and no place to work, they will go back on thier own. you cannot grant them amnesty either, if you do, you just told them that it is okay to break the law. guys talk about produce going up, if they paid decent wages. what the hell happens when price of oil goes up, people bitch but we pay it don't we. one old timer from the bar said, we got along just fine before they got here, now didn't we. they don't want to work in the fields anymore, they come here and are doing construction, your trades, and now opening thier own businesses and working for cash, paying in cash avoiding taxes. not going to rant anymore, good luck with your plays today.

[KazDog]

gbell....I thought you were arguing intelligently but obviously you can't.

KB...I would like for you to be the representative that has to inform each and every family of the over 2000 soldiers killed, that their children died so iraqi women can now vote. Make sure you mention the part about our oil interests as well. I agree with tkim. Women not voting there was part of the culture. Who are we to say what's right and wrong for their own culture. If they were so happy we're there, why do they continue to fight the hell out of us?

As far as a solution.....Educate to lesson the burden of the tax payer means to teach them about birth control. Teach them that you don't go to the emergency when you have the flu. There's more that can be done as far as educating, but you get the drift.

Another part of the solution. Open the borders like it is for Canada. Give them visa's and report them so if they do work, so they can be taxed. Why don't we have these problems with Canadian's? Because they don't want to come here. so,

Encourage business in Mexico, like they do now, only pay more per hour for workers there, so Mexican's are not so inclined to leave. Why leave your country if you're being paid as much if not more to stay!

Mexico could become a very prosperous country. There economy can thrive because it is a very untapped region. Fertile land and Tourism. Hmmm, sounds like Calif.

Stiff fines for any employer caught paying cash.

That's enough for now. Again, I'm not the one whining about the problem, am I? But I gave you a part of my solution....

[gbell]

gbell....I thought you were arguing intelligently but obviously you can't.

As far as a solution.....Educate to lesson the burden of the tax payer means to teach them about birth control. Teach them that you don't go to the emergency when you have the flu. There's more that can be done as far as educating, but you get the drift.

I thought you said there was NO tax burden? Do you think these ILLEGAL people will go running to sign up for seminars?

Another part of the solution. Open the borders like it is for Canada. Give them visa's and report them so if they do work, so they can be taxed. Why don't we have these problems with Canadian's? Because they don't want to come here. so,


Open the borders? We are already overwhelmed. You want to make it easier? We aren't the dumping ground for the world.

Encourage business in Mexico, like they do now, only pay more per hour for workers there, so Mexican's are not so inclined to leave. Why leave your country if you're being paid as much if not more to stay!

Duh, if Mexico had great employment, the ILLEGAL people wouldn't be here picking lettuce for 50 cents, remember?

Mexico could become a very prosperous country. There economy can thrive because it is a very untapped region. Fertile land and Tourism. Hmmm, sounds like Calif.

Stiff fines for any employer caught paying cash.


First thing I agree with you, but won't that raise the price of your lettuce if not followed?

That's enough for now. Again, I'm not the one whining about the problem, am I? But I gave you a part of my solution....

Whining isn't the same as opening a dialogue and hoping people are open minded enough, and more importantly, intelligent enough, to try and make a difference. To me presenting the realities is a step.

Kaz, it's hard to take someone seriously who doesn't think that what these people are doing is illegal, compares the enforcement of our own laws to the Nazi's and the Holacaust, demands stats, then ignores them, but refuses to find stats to support his "feelings", and thinks that everything is hand-holding peachy keen.

[KazDog]

Kaz, it's hard to take someone seriously who doesn't think that what these people are doing is illegal, compares the enforcement of our own laws to the Nazi's and the Holacaust, demands stats, then ignores them, but refuses to find stats to support his "feelings", and thinks that everything is hand-holding peachy keen.

You want to tell me where I said there was no tax burden? I'd really like to see that quote please....I'm sure being such a smart guy you can find it somewhere.

And please if you will, show me where I say that coming here is NOT and illegal act. The fact that they come over the border is against the law. Tell me where I say it isn't.

Rounding up Mexican's, or going door to door and finding out if you are illegal, and placing you in a bus and deporting you out of this country, singling one race over all others, does have a sound of Nazi Germany. Sorry to tell you, just because we don't kill them as well, doesn't mean that it doesn't.

You want stats, but the fact is, your stats didn't prove a lot of things. Like how much is returned to the economy by illegals. Or how much it would cost if their labor force was removed from the economy. Or the cost to the tax payer to remove them from this country. Please spew those stats if you will. We all know there's a price to pay. There always has been. This is obvious and wasn't refuted. I asked Bry to show me the ratio of military spending of our tax dollars compared to the spending of our tax dollars on welfare. Did you do that with all your cutting and pasting.....Umm no you did not.

You post some crap, that is full of falsehoods to open this thread, that circulated lies around the internet, and expect me to take you seriously?