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**bobj** · 10-10-2005, 03:28 AM

i couldn't agree with you more shorty. keep those 10*'s coming.

**Tigger** · 10-10-2005, 04:16 AM

Absolutely right! IT'S A LOT OF PRESSURE ON A CAPPER TO LABEL A PLAY A "GOY"! If you don't understand why there is a lot of added pressure, then you're not a true capper.... The added bullshit from others on the site is unnecessary.

~~~ Tigger

**frankb03** · 10-10-2005, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by shorty3830

As all of you know, I usually stay away from the controversy that we occasionally have but it seems that every time i see someone post a GOY, there are always a couple of people bashing the GOY concept and encouraging others to take the opposite side

Look, i couldnt agree more with this bashing whenever a service does it but there is no reason to do it when one of the members posts it...........for those that dont post plays and only follow your favorite cappers here (believe me, you guys are as important to the success of this site as those of us who post), please try not to bash...........the only thing i can tell you guys is that it takes a lot for someone to put their ass on the line with a GOY b/c even the people who do not have the strongest following know that a lot of people will bet it when they say GOY, and the person posting it really believes the play is special and is just trying to do everyone a favor

today, jason had a GOY on jax and the last thing the dude needs is people calling him out on it before the game starts.......he is a good capper, contributes a lot to the site, so please stop bashing the GOY's because as long as i have been here (a few years), i promise you people here have won more than they have lost

sorry to be annoying, and we have gone over the GOY argument many times and i respect those whose opinion is contrary to mine but just let people make their own decisions on whether to play it and for how much

Shorty, I'm probably the most outspoken over this issue. First, let me say I'd never root against anyone's GOY, fade them or encourage other members to fade the GOY.

Shorty, you have to admit we have too many members that sound like services or are wannabe services. If someone wants to sound and act like a service let them post over in the service forum.

Here's where I disagree with you. IMO guys use the terms GOY and LOCK for one reason. ATTENTION! I see no other reason to use that terminolgy.

Compare the number of views on threads using GOY vs other cappers selections. The views increase many times. I've been on this site long enough to know many GOY's lose. If we graded them I'd say they win about 50% or less. Clearly by the attention they get many newbies bet them like they are certain winners.

You and I know posting plays and losing is tough. I do believe we have some members like rainman who could care less if their posted plays win or lose. They think it's a joke. If you use GOY etc solely for attention then you have to accept the negative attention. I know as fact another banned member posted any game not knowing or caring who covered.

Jason is a good capper. I always check his threads to see who he's on but he's had a GOY every week. IMO that's a bit much. Even if he's done well with them. His GOY''s have done well while many other have not.

I also disagree with your statement that most members win. Like many when I first came to this site I did so seeking service selections. I quickly realized the cappers at this site were better than the service. However, I still lost. Why? Because I jumped from capper to capper. Played on GOY and LOCKS etc. Bet too much on GOY type games. From my own person bad experiences that is the primary reason I'm very outspoken.

IMO this site is about more than offering winning selecions. It also about offering wisdom, advice and opinions. Read Coverboy's baseball threads. He offers years of wisdom. His experience is older than some members ages. I truly believe he gets through to some of his follows. To me that's as important as giving winners. There's gamblers that you can give them 60% winners and they'll find a way to lose.

Personally, I'd love to see terms like LOCK and GOY banned from thread titles like we do with cover-s, north-coast etc.

**Tigger** · 10-10-2005, 04:50 AM

Frank

I agree with some of your points as well, but then again I have to disagree too.

First of all, I have think we have to realize what our "target audience" is here, if I can use that expression. Are we posting plays here for the everyday joe that will stop by BC amongst 7 other forums to gather plays.... or are we posting plays here for the BC family? If we are doing the latter then each one of us is responsible for "knowing" the mentality of the cappers and how they run their systems/ratings.

The term GOY in and of itself should not be banned and I'd like to use an "extreme" case to prove my point here, if I may. If I can put myself in the category, (I hope to one day be placed in) Wayne and I (amongst others) use the term GOY as a very "sacred" term.... it's something that is true reserved for a special matchup/play. It's a very very rare thing and it does have a higher winning percentage than our regular plays.

On the other hand, I can see what you are talking about with some capper over using the term GOY (having one each and every week)... and once again I think we have to go back to the audience here. The true BC members know who these cappers are and do not "jump" all over these plays, as opposed to Wayne's GOY with a 16 - 3 record or so.

Just an example, but I hope you can see where I'm going with this....

~~~ Tigger

**frankb03** · 10-10-2005, 05:14 AM

Tigger

Originally posted by Tigger

Are we posting plays here for the everyday joe that will stop by BC amongst 7 other forums to gather plays.... or are we posting plays here for the BC family? If we are doing the latter then each one of us is responsible for "knowing" the mentality of the cappers and how they run their systems/ratings.

You too also raise some valid points that I agree with.

The one point I disagree with is the BC member knowing the mentality of the capper. I feel a responsible BC capper has a responsibilty to the BC members that might follow his plays. I know many members will disagree with me there.

Shorty is a capper I respect very much. He posts very selectively. He does so using 10* alerts. I like that terminology much more than GOY. I simply hate the term GOY because of its service related connotation.

I agree with your assessment of Wayne. He uses GOY very sparingly. Those are true GOY. I have no problem with him using the term because we all know it's truly a GOY. He doesn't have one every week or every month.

**jordanrules23** · 10-10-2005, 05:14 AM

thank you for this type of post.....eveyday people have a goy, gom, for no reason but to get noticed and some have a goy every other day...If you have a goy, or game of whatever its supposed to be once a yr play....

**Tigger** · 10-10-2005, 05:31 AM

Originally posted by frankb03

You too also raise some valid points that I agree with.

The one point I disagree with is the BC member knowing the mentality of the capper. I feel a responsible BC capper has a responsibilty to the BC members that might follow his plays. I know many members will disagree with me there.

Shorty is a capper I respect very much. He posts very selectively. He does so using 10* alerts. I like that terminology much more than GOY. I simply hate the term GOY because of its service related connotation.

I agree with your assessment of Wayne. He uses GOY very sparingly. Those are true GOY. I have no problem with him using the term because we all know it's truly a GOY. He doesn't have one every week or every month.

Exactly Frank... .good points.

I do 5* plays, that's is my highest rated plays... other than my GOY play, and I don't use 5* that often.... although they've been off to a bad start this season, they're usually pretty solid. Agree with everything said... I was just stating that one cappers "GOY" will not have the pull in the big picture that anothers "GOY" will have if the second capper knowingly uses his title "GOY" sparingly.

~~~ Tigger

EXCELLENT THREAD!

**The Lovedoc** · 10-10-2005, 10:39 AM

For what its worth i'm 2-0 on GOY's!!

:christmas LOL

**BorgataRob** · 10-10-2005, 10:58 AM

Goys

Shorty, First of all I am not one to bash someone for a GOY. MY only problem is I think if anyone is gonna do it tell us why you feel so strongly.If they are just gonna just throw it out without ryhme or reason than I think they should be entitled to a little criticizim.

**10DimeBry** · 10-10-2005, 10:59 AM

my billion trillion million star LOCKS are 1-0 YTD

**Lsufan** · 10-10-2005, 11:00 AM

What are your feelings about "Stone Cold Lead Pipe Locks?"

Sincerely,

10DimeBry

**Sports Guru** · 10-10-2005, 11:10 AM

I would like to interject my opinion on this issue as well because I agree a little with both sides. I also will have a "Game of the Year" play I'm sure at some point this season. To date I have NEVER lost a game of the year (6-0) last 6 years but there is a reason for that. It will be the strongest selection that I will release, and I only release it ONE time each year. Its even in the title, "Game of the year" which is singular not plural thus there should only be one game. I totally agree that the problem is people tend to look at those posts touting a GOM or GOY and they decide to follow that person or tout for that one selection and when it loses they tend to attack that other person which is also Bullshit. Look at some services, Moutain West GOY, Underdog GOY, Undervalued GOY, MAC GOY...and the list goes on and on. Anytime your see stuff like that its all Bullshit.

You guys out there need to follow somebody who admits both their losing and winning days and in this business there are not to many honest people.

**wayne1218** · 10-10-2005, 11:17 AM

I agree and disagree here.

1ST of all the term "Game of the Year" is NOT plural (? spelling). I repeat .... it is NOT!

A GOY should be that. One friggin game ......... ONE!

It is RIDICULOUS to see someone post a GOY every F-ING week. It is total bullshit to say that you have one every week or every month in the same sport. If you have more than one than you are here for one thing ..... ATTENTION!

If you have a GOY one week and love a team the next than too bad. Make it a 5 or 10 star play. People take the term GOY waaaaaay too lightly and it's not about picking your favorite game every weekend and throwing the GOY tag on it!

I've made almost 21,000 posts here and i've posted here every day for 3 years. I am (16-3) All Time in "GOY" plays. I refuse to take them lightly and i'm quite honestly scared to death when i throw one out there. Why? Two reasons, i know many people WILL bet it AND i have a LARGE amount of money on it myself. Those are both reasons to really make me stress out when these games are happening.

I have had good success in those games but i've had season's like this year in the NBA where i won over 100 units and NEVER had a "GOY" play. I just never felt that GOY type of feeling about any one game.

My 19 GOY plays in 21,000 posts equals out to be one play ever 1,100 posts. That is not much and there are people here with less than 1 or 2 thousand posts who have had 20 GOY plays already, sometimes 5 or 10 in one sport over the course of 1 season.

I guess it bothers me because those plays should be sacred to you as a gambler and they simply are not. It shouldn't be about attention like it is used because people actually may bet them and more importantly you lose my respect and many others as well.

I would be willing to bet that all the people who use the term weekly are young and immature gamblers with bad money management. The older ones who have been doing this awhile (15-20 years) know better!

That's my opinion on this ongoing issue here!

**savage1** · 10-10-2005, 11:34 AM

Great thought provoking topic;I found all of the posts very enjoyable and well expressed. I can't add anything because everything that need be said has already been said.
I think discussions like this add a lot to BC because it shows we are more than just a bunch of mindless idiots who are only conerned with W's and L's.

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