Cleveland and Ohio treated us well!

[savage1]

You haven't answered my question as to what all the good things he has done for YEARS and verified by MANY means-nothing?????

[wayne1218]

You haven't answered my question as to what all the good things he has done for YEARS and verified by MANY means-nothing?????

Yes i have savage. I said that's all well and good but 90% of athletes do good things with free time they have. That's great but he treated us like shit. Why can't you accept that? It happened!

[wayne1218]

You haven't answered my question as to what all the good things he has done for YEARS and verified by MANY means-nothing?????

You didn't answer mine. Would you be stupid enough to go on Delta again for the 3rd or 4th time or try someone else?

[savage1]

I would venture to say that if you took 100 baseball fans at random who follow baseball and/or the Sox closely and know what he has done for the Sox and the community, many more than 1/2 would say he is a decent person and not conclude he is the asshole if they examined ALL the facts and past history of the man INCLUDING what happened to a few fans during your stay.

[wayne1218]

I would venture to say that if you took 100 baseball fans at random who follow baseball and/or the Sox closely and know what he has done for the Sox and the community, many more than 1/2 would say he is a decent person and not the asshole you conclude if they examined all the facts INCLUDING what happened to a few fans.

Who Cares?

Talk to people who have actually met him and they will probably tell you he's an asshole. I talked to at least 10 people who tried at the hotel or game and i was 10 for 10 in getting the same response. He's an ASS!

[wayne1218]

I would venture to say that if you took 100 baseball fans at random who follow baseball and/or the Sox closely and know what he has done for the Sox and the community, many more than 1/2 would say he is a decent person and not conclude he is the asshole if they examined ALL the facts and past history of the man INCLUDING what happened to a few fans during your stay.

Savage, SERIOUSLY, are you f-ing retarded or something? I said it was MY EXPERIENCE AND MY OPINION FROM MEETING HIM AND TALKING WITH OTHERS WHO DID THE SAME. Maybe his is a nice guy but to US, HE WAS AN ASSHOLE. Until you have met or talked to him your opinion means NOTHING!

[TheRook]

Wayne-You still didn't answer my horse analogy-the point is that one should not jump to conclusions so quickly.
You don't like horses, well lets try airlines.
Lets say that you were going on a trip and decided to research which airline was the best based on what reputable magazines had to say, for example Consumer Reports.
Lets say that the magazines all said that the readers and past evidencefor years saiys for the sake of example that Delta was the best.
Now lets say you take a Delta flight and on either your departure flight or returning flight or maybe both, everything is awful-the plane is late, the baggage is also late arriving, the food is rotten, the flight attendants are aloof.
Now the difference is that you probably would come back and say Delta sucks and mention all the reasons stated and say you would never use them again.
If I took the same trip, I would come back disappointed and would probably conclude that I picked the wrong time to go.
Based on their very fine verified record in the past, I would give them a second chance.
I think this is appropriate to our discussion because you are making some sweeping generalizations about Wakefield based on a bad experience, when his long track record posted by me and even Rook shows something entirely different.

The only problem with what you've said there is that all those magazines that had such good things to say about Delta probably aren't benefiting from saying what they said...but I betcha when you get to who releases the news you get about Wakefield or any other athlete and his charity work...I'd be willing to say that it's from that athletes agent, office, PR department..etc. There is a lot to gain from an athletes standpiont.

[savage1]

You didn't answer mine. Would you be stupid enough to go on Delta again for the 3rd or 4th time or try someone else?

I would have to have been there to have seen every incident which occurred, and hear Wakefield's side of it before determining if Wakefield was really that bad during the incidents.
At least with my analogy with Delta, the great rating is based on MANY people's opinions over a LONG period of time.
In answer to your question, the difference would be that the 3 or 4 flights would not be together as was the case with a few fans over a day or two;it would be over weeks or months, and thus a better determinent of how goodm the airline was.
I would bet anything that most knowledgeable baseball people in the Boston area and in the country for that matter would have STRONG disagreement based on all of the facts and history of your conclusion that Wakefield is an asshole.

[wayne1218]

I would have to have been there to have seen every incident which occurred, and hear Wakefield's side of it before determining if Wakefield was really that bad during the incidents.
At least with my analogy with Delta, the great rating is based on MANY people's opinions over a LONG period of time.
In answer to your question, the difference would be that the 3 or 4 flights would not be together as was the case with a few fans over a day or two;it would be over weeks or months, and thus a better determinent of how goodm the airline was.
I would bet anything that most knowledgeable baseball people in the Boston area and in the country for that matter would have STRONG disagreement based on all of the facts and history of your conclusion that Wakefield is an asshole.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Do you really think Wakefield would have given you his side savage? You are very much in a box!

[savage1]

Savage, SERIOUSLY, are you f-ing retarded or something? I said it was MY EXPERIENCE AND MY OPINION FROM MEETING HIM AND TALKING WITH OTHERS WHO DID THE SAME. Maybe his is a nice guy but to US, HE WAS AN ASSHOLE. Until you have met or talked to him your opinion means NOTHING!

He may have been an asshole on that day(we are all assholes sometimes), but to generalize and say that he is an asshole based on what he has verifiably done in the past, is presumptuous on your part and shows too much skepticism;god, he has done a lot of good stuff; a lot more than most!

[wayne1218]

Just like many think Bonds is an ass and many don't. I think Wakefield is an ass along with others who actually met him and others like you don't.

[wayne1218]

He may have been an asshole on that day(we are all assholes sometimes), but to generalize and say that he is an asshole based on what he has verifiably done in the past, is presumptuous on your part and shows too much skepticism;god, he has done a lot of good stuff; a lot more than most!

Tell the wife to get you some Q-Tips and listen to me. It wasn't one fucken god damn day! It was 3 days and nights according to me and others who tried. Just move on because your not making sense and your repeating the same shit over and over again. You like him, great. I don't care to change that. I don't and i think he's an asshole and i posted it in my own thread. If you don't like it than move on!

[savage1]

Wayne-no offense but in my 34 years in working in social services, I had contact with thousands of people and learned a lot and think I am a good judge of people.
I go by what I see over a period of time, not based on what happened on 1 or 2 days.
I have the highest regard for Wakefield, and I sure as heck am not going to change it based on 1 or 2 incidents where I don't know all of the facts.
Conclude what you may, but my opinion will not change until I see evidence and statements and proof from others that he is the bad guy you make him out to be.

[wayne1218]

Wayne-no offense but in my 34 years in working in social services, I had contact with thousands of people and learned a lot and think I am a good judge of people.
I go by what I see over a period of time, not based on what happened on 1 or 2 days.
I have the highest regard for Wakefield, and I sure as heck am not going to change it based on 1 or 2 incidents where I don't know all of the facts.
Conclude what you may, but my opinion will not change until I see evidence and statements and proof from others that he is the bad guy you make him out to be.

Well you didn't fucken meet wakefield so until you do i don't care what your opinion is based on T.V.

[wayne1218]

P.S. I don't care about your opinion or changing it. Maybe you should do the same!