My humble opinion on the Patriots

[TheRook]

wow....quite a thread.

Couple things that I'll put my 1.5 cents on.


1) The 1973 Dolphins while going undefeated were NOT the greatest team in the NFL. The argurment they lost none while every other super bowl team has lost at least 1 game doesn't fly with me. And here's why.

The Dolphins want recognition as the greatest team of all time simply because they went through the regular season and the playoffs undefeated, ending up with a 17-0 record. This is a great accomplishment -- a singular one, in fact. But this is, ultimately, a thin argument.

Consider, for example, that the Dolphins played one of the easiest schedules in modern NFL history -- the opposition had a combined winning percentage under .400. Unlike the 1985 Bears, the Dolphins didn't stroll through the playoffs. They beat the Steelers in the AFC title game by only four points, 21-17, and were underdogs going into the Super Bowl against the Redskins, who they defeated 14-7. Undefeated underdogs? That means you're not beaten, but you are beatable.




The 85 Bears for all but one game were beatable. There were only 3 games that the Bears didn't win by more then double digits. (Week 3 at Minny won 33-24, week 9 at Green Bay W 16-10 and week 14 vs Indianapolis W 17-10). They gave up 10 or less points in 11 of the 16 games, AND then all three playoff games....a 21-0 Shutout win vs the NY Giants, a 24-0 shut out vs the LA Rams, and the 46-10 thrashing of the Pats in Super Bowl XX.

That is DOMINANCE.

I'm sorry but I will never ever sway and it's not being homerish that the 72 dolphins were better then the 85 Bears, and quite frankly I think the 49ers and Cowboys in their hey day were better then the 72 Dolphins.


Now, as I say that.....I think the 07 Patriots are right now the best team I've ever seen. They can turn it on at any point and they have the greatest offense that I've ever seen.

As far as the cheating scandal....jeez...if people can't figure out that EVERY TEAM DOES THIS....it just so happen that it was the Pats got caught. And they got caught because they were taddled on. Does that make it right? No, absolutely not. But it is what it is. They paid the price for it, and it's over. The cheating scandal has nothing to do with them kicking the Cowgirls ass, or the Beatdown on the Skins, and Bills. So why keep bringing it up?

If teams want to see New England stop running up the score, I have a suggestion for the opposing defenses....STOP THEM. There is no rule whatsoever that says that after an "x" amount point lead you have to run the ball up the middle every single time. If you want the score to remain decent...then figure out a way to stop them. I have ZERO problem with what the Pats are doing because quite frankly when the shoe is on the other foot, some team will do that to the Pats. Maybe not this year, but all these teams have long memories. Like JC said...Karma is a bitch....but it goes both ways.

What really we should all be doing is recognizing the greatness we are seeing. Love em or hate em....we are seeing history. Something we can all tell our kids and grandkids about in 10-20 years.

If they win the super bowl, they will be the greatest team in nfl history IMO...with or without a loss in the regular season.

[Chado1]

I have no bias towards either team so I will give my impartial opinion as simple as this. If the Pats want to continue to blow out teams or whatever that is their decision but you play to win the game not cover the spread or blowout teams. If Billicheck is dumb enough to leave his starters out there in the 2nd half when they are already up by 4 TD's dont come crying when someone gets injured...that to me is the stupidest thing he is doing. In the long run their is no benefit leaving your STARS out there when a win is already secure. So if Brady or Mass get injured for the playoffs (which matters most) because Bellicheck wants to leave them in there late in a game when they already have a W in the win column then he will have nobody to blame but himself if an injury occurs.

[griffey_mojo]

Just a couple of questions...


Why is it that everytime someone doesn't agree with Wayne and his "beliefs" they end up getting banned or the threatening of banning?

Why did Wayne (Moderator of this Message board) start the name calling?


It is my belief that people (newbies) are "afraid" of speaking up on this message board just for this reason alone.

[molta02]

wow....quite a thread.

Couple things that I'll put my 1.5 cents on.


1) The 1973 Dolphins while going undefeated were NOT the greatest team in the NFL. The argurment they lost none while every other super bowl team has lost at least 1 game doesn't fly with me. And here's why.

The Dolphins want recognition as the greatest team of all time simply because they went through the regular season and the playoffs undefeated, ending up with a 17-0 record. This is a great accomplishment -- a singular one, in fact. But this is, ultimately, a thin argument.

Consider, for example, that the Dolphins played one of the easiest schedules in modern NFL history -- the opposition had a combined winning percentage under .400. Unlike the 1985 Bears, the Dolphins didn't stroll through the playoffs. They beat the Steelers in the AFC title game by only four points, 21-17, and were underdogs going into the Super Bowl against the Redskins, who they defeated 14-7. Undefeated underdogs? That means you're not beaten, but you are beatable.




The 85 Bears for all but one game were beatable. There were only 3 games that the Bears didn't win by more then double digits. (Week 3 at Minny won 33-24, week 9 at Green Bay W 16-10 and week 14 vs Indianapolis W 17-10). They gave up 10 or less points in 11 of the 16 games, AND then all three playoff games....a 21-0 Shutout win vs the NY Giants, a 24-0 shut out vs the LA Rams, and the 46-10 thrashing of the Pats in Super Bowl XX.

That is DOMINANCE.

I'm sorry but I will never ever sway and it's not being homerish that the 72 dolphins were better then the 85 Bears, and quite frankly I think the 49ers and Cowboys in their hey day were better then the 72 Dolphins.


Now, as I say that.....I think the 07 Patriots are right now the best team I've ever seen. They can turn it on at any point and they have the greatest offense that I've ever seen.

As far as the cheating scandal....jeez...if people can't figure out that EVERY TEAM DOES THIS....it just so happen that it was the Pats got caught. And they got caught because they were taddled on. Does that make it right? No, absolutely not. But it is what it is. They paid the price for it, and it's over. The cheating scandal has nothing to do with them kicking the Cowgirls ass, or the Beatdown on the Skins, and Bills. So why keep bringing it up?

If teams want to see New England stop running up the score, I have a suggestion for the opposing defenses....STOP THEM. There is no rule whatsoever that says that after an "x" amount point lead you have to run the ball up the middle every single time. If you want the score to remain decent...then figure out a way to stop them. I have ZERO problem with what the Pats are doing because quite frankly when the shoe is on the other foot, some team will do that to the Pats. Maybe not this year, but all these teams have long memories. Like JC said...Karma is a bitch....but it goes both ways.

What really we should all be doing is recognizing the greatness we are seeing. Love em or hate em....we are seeing history. Something we can all tell our kids and grandkids about in 10-20 years.

If they win the super bowl, they will be the greatest team in nfl history IMO...with or without a loss in the regular season.

very well put.

[TwoTonTony]

Fact- This Is A Thread In "all Sports Discussion" It Is A Discussion. Look It Up In The Dictionary. It Is Not A "discuss It And If The Other Person Diagrees With You Opinion, Insult Them." That Is Very Very Weak And Childish Of You. You Are Supposed To Help Monte Maintain Order Here As A Moderator, Not Insult People.

Fact- Dying Children Is A Serious Topic. Do Not Make Rude Comments About It. I Have No Respect For You Over That Comment, And Others Feel The Same Way.

Fact- You Have No Business Helping Out This Site In Any Way. You Are Disrepectful. If You Can't Accept Other Grown-ups Having Their Own Opinion, Go Back To Pre-school.

Fact- I Will Not Fund Any Sportsbook Accounts I Created When Using Bettorschat As A Connection. I Will Not Ever Open One Up Again Through This Site As I Am Very Mistaken As To What Kind Of A Site This Is. You Have Just Cost This Site Money Because Of This. Others May Follow Suit.

Fact-ban What The Fuck Ever You Want. Wah! This Is An Internet Site, Not A Way Of Living You No Life Having Cocksucker!

Stop Fellating The Entire Pats Team You Fucking Gumpy. Ban Ban Ban Bitch! I'm Out. Good Night. You Can't Ban What's Already Gone Bitch!

Kingneil-

that is a commendable profession......one i would not have the heart to do.....i would be crying like a girl daily

[TwoTonTony]

the only teams i remember being this dominant has been the Bears.....I know they lost once but that 46 defense was just ridiculous and their personnel was awesome....

however, the Pats are not as good on that side of the ball but equally fearsome on offense....JMHO

[TheRook]

the only teams i remember being this dominant has been the Bears.....I know they lost once but that 46 defense was just ridiculous and their personnel was awesome....

however, the Pats are not as good on that side of the ball but equally fearsome on offense....JMHO

I agree...the defense isn't close to what the 85 Bears are...but think about it...do they need to be? When your putting up 38 points a game...just how good does your defense have to be?

The Bears didn't have a great offense. They had a good offense. They had Walter Payton and that was good enough for most of the time. But there were a TON of turnovers that made it a short field for the Bears back then.

Here's some other tidbits on the Bears defense that I just found.

**Since the adoption of the 16-game schedule in 1978, the 1985 Chicago Bears are the only team to score 400 or more points while allowing fewer than 200.

**Led by the great Walter Payton, who ran for 1,551 yards and a 4.8 average per carry, the Bears led the NFL in rushing yardage and were fifth in average yards per carry.


**The Bears led the NFC and were fourth in the NFL in average yards per pass attempt. Are you sick of hearing about that stat? Tough.

**The Bears led the NFC and were second in the NFL in average yards per completion. Doesn't sound like an ultra-conservative offense to me.

**Including their three postseason games, the Bears were outgained in a game just once the entire season.


**The Bears' defense forced 54 turnovers, the fifth-highest total since the beginning of the 16-game schedule.


**The Monday Night game against the Dolphins on December 2 is still the highest-rated game in the history of Monday Night Football with a 29.6 rating.


**Nine members of the '85 Bears were homegrown first-round picks. Five of them played in the Pro Bowl.


**The Bears outgained their three playoff opponents by an amazing margin of 1,023 yards to 434.

**In the Super Bowl, the Patriots made positive yardage on just one of their first 16 offensive plays.

[BrezzeEaze]

If the Pats lose a game this season, all of this talk of who is the greatest team will pass.
I don't care what era or sport it is, if you managed to pull off an undefeated season that is an awesome and very rare accomplishment.
The Pats look unstoppable thus far, but the season is not over by any means.
On another note, I do think Griffey has raised some interesting points. Being a called a idiot and then raising concerns over someone's volunteer work in the community is a bit over the top.
It is too bad this debate/argument turned negative and became personal.
Oh the joys of the internet.

[wayne1218]

Just a couple of questions...


Why is it that everytime someone doesn't agree with Wayne and his "beliefs" they end up getting banned or the threatening of banning?

Why did Wayne (Moderator of this Message board) start the name calling?


It is my belief that people (newbies) are "afraid" of speaking up on this message board just for this reason alone.

Because i can. How is that for an answer nate?

[wayne1218]

If the Pats lose a game this season, all of this talk of who is the greatest team will pass.
I don't care what era or sport it is, if you managed to pull off an undefeated season that is an awesome and very rare accomplishment.
The Pats look unstoppable thus far, but the season is not over by any means.
On another note, I do think Griffey has raised some interesting points. Being a called a idiot and then raising concerns over someone's volunteer work in the community is a bit over the top.
It is too bad this debate/argument turned negative and became personal.
Oh the joys of the internet.

I called him an idiot, yes. It's not the end of the world and i've heard much worse. He returned the favor several times and as you can read, i had no problem with it. When he went to the fuck you route and threatened the site as a whole ... he was gone. End of story.

[tonynico]

I think t his exchange sent it over the edge.


NEIL
No, actually helping comfort terminally ill children. You have something negative to say about that too?

WAYNE
You do it so yes, i probably could.

I don't see how that could end in a good way.

[wayne1218]

I think t his exchange sent it over the edge.


NEIL
No, actually helping comfort terminally ill children. You have something negative to say about that too?

WAYNE
You do it so yes, i probably could.

I don't see how that could end in a good way.

1ST off, what does working with terminally ill children have to do with the teams and conversation we were having? Please explain that to me.

2ND, I've heard that 100 times here as someone throws a guilt trip against the wall to see if it would stick and 99% of them were making the shit up ... Just like i did with my other response to it. Do you know if he does? I don't, and if he does, great, it still has no bearing on the conversation we were having so what was his point?

[tonynico]

1ST off, what does working with terminally ill children have to do with the teams and conversation we were having? Please explain that to me.

2ND, I've heard that 100 times here as someone throws a guilt trip against the wall to see if it would stick and 99% of them were making the shit up ... Just like i did with my other response to it. Do you know if he does? I don't, and if he does, great, it still has no bearing on the conversation we were having so what was his point?

I don't know why he brought it up, nor do I know it to be true or not. But I just meant that your response could have been read as very harsh when writing that you "could come up with something negative to say" about terminally ill children. If I misread it, then I am wrong, and I can't explain a connection between the Patriots and charitable work. Read in the other thread I am in about staying on topic and it making things so much easier and clearer.

And I just went and reread a few posts to see if I misinterpreted posts and I also see where you accuse him of

"Anyone who accepts beating people and DRUNK DRIVING, something many in
this country have unwillingly died from as less of a problem than a camera in a football game "

I didn't read anywhere he wrote that he accepts abuse or drunk driving, and since you asked, I think his charitable response was to you asking if he helped Bengals players detox.

[TwoTonTony]

wayne...i agree....although noble, what does his profession have to do with his argument.....i suppose when people are losing and taking the beatdown they will go for the sympathy vote......

I work with homeless midgets and nobody (except rook) seems to care

but in all seriousness the Pats are the bomb......i laugh when i think back to Pioli when I played with him in college.....great guy....funny as hell....but in charge of the Pats.....who would have thunk it.....

[wayne1218]

I don't know why he brought it up, nor do I know it to be true or not. But I just meant that your response could have been read as very harsh when writing that you "could come up with something negative to say" about terminally ill children. If I misread it, then I am wrong, and I can't explain a connection between the Patriots and charitable work. Read in the other thread I am in about staying on topic and it making things so much easier and clearer.

Tony, This isn't my 1st rodeo here and if he works with terminally ill children, i would be SHOCKED. If he does great, if he doesn't, how bad does that make him look.

So should i (In the middle of the conversation), have jumped in and said MY DAD IS DEAD? What the hell does it have to do with anything? It doesn't and that is why he received my response. Some fail to notice that he brought up the whole job thing and mine, or lack there of, in his opinion.