Where did all the Red Sox's fans go

[kbsooner21]

The best part about this is...i don't necesarily disagree with what you are all saying...I just think its awfully funny that it's ok now...but not then.

BINGO!!!

[TwoTonTony]

Wayne and Savage,

the funny thing about this whole thing is that Varitek is my favorite player....I go to spring training most years and 2 years ago i only took 1 picture on my camera and it was #33 at the plate against the Reds.....So just because i disagree I am not a Varitek hater....I was a catcher and Fisk is my all time favorite and i love Varitek too......

[kbsooner21]

Yea, yea, THIS ISN'T ABOUT THE CUBS!!

[wayne1218]

I'm laughing it off because you said in that post about Trot and Veritek the SAME THING I said about Lee.

And I got dogged from the moment it was on here.

BUT BUT

Because it's the Red Sox...it's a different story. Because The Cubs are such a woeful organization they don't matter.

No, I don't have the record handy, but I bet you it's pretty similar percentage wise to the record with Veritek and Nixon out of the lineup.

The best part about this is...i don't necesarily disagree with what you are all saying...I just think its awfully funny that it's ok now...but not then.

The Cubs are a BELOW .500 team with Lee and a BELOW .500 team without him. Does he mean that much John? It's the difference in winning 70 games or 80 "maybe". Either way it doesn't matter!

[10DimeBry]

Is Varitek a good player?? YES

Would i rather lose him for a week or Shef/Matsui for 3-4 months.....

Varitek- hands down......The pitches are probably being called from the dugout now anyways.....and he is there to coddle those big pussies when they come in to the bench with their heads down

how can you even say that? shef and leather face go down and NYY is still winning are they not? nyy has what 7 8 solid hitters do they not? varitek goes down sox are done. calling pitches from the dugout is a joke. you guys continue to amaze me with your cluelessness on this topic. WOW

[wayne1218]

I'm laughing it off because you said in that post about Trot and Veritek the SAME THING I said about Lee.

And I got dogged from the moment it was on here.

BUT BUT

Because it's the Red Sox...it's a different story. Because The Cubs are such a woeful organization they don't matter.

No, I don't have the record handy, but I bet you it's pretty similar percentage wise to the record with Veritek and Nixon out of the lineup.

The best part about this is...i don't necesarily disagree with what you are all saying...I just think its awfully funny that it's ok now...but not then.

Check the Record with them John and check the Cubs With Lee john. Not much changes with Lee but the record is worlds apart with Nixon and Tek. You would lose that bet.

[TwoTonTony]

The Cubs are a BELOW .500 team with Lee and a BELOW .500 team without him. Does he mean that much John? It's the difference in winning 70 games or 80 "maybe". Either way it doesn't matter!

Wayne,

but seriously we had problems with or without varitek and we were on borrowed time with this club......Without varitek it exposes them even more....

so like vince lombardi said, "Nobody remembers 2nd place"...So we are similar to the Cubs there also....There ain't no prizes for runner up

[wayne1218]

Wayne,

but seriously we had problems with or without varitek and we were on borrowed time with this club......Without varitek it exposes them even more....

so like vince lombardi said, "Nobody remembers 2nd place"...So we are similar to the Cubs there also....There ain't no prizes for runner up

Tony,

I'm just repeating myself here but i said this waaay back in this thread that the Front office is the bigger problem ... Arrgghhhh

[savage1]

I don't. I think the Yanks would have been much worse off losing Rivera or Mussina instead of Sheff or Matsui. Offense is much easier to replace than pitching, defense, and a QB (Catcher) on the field!

I agree wholeheartedly.Where would Sox be without Papelbon?

[TwoTonTony]

how can you even say that? shef and leather face go down and NYY is still winning are they not? nyy has what 7 8 solid hitters do they not? varitek goes down sox are done. calling pitches from the dugout is a joke. you guys continue to amaze me with your cluelessness on this topic. WOW

i am posing a question before you knew the outcome.......Nobody would take the injury to varitek as more important at the time.....4 weeks vs 3-4 months....2 all-stars being lost vs 1 catcher who hits .245 and calls a good game and manages a staff......

The problem is deeper than Varitek.....It is like your house being on fire.......If you put gas on it (taking varitek out) it burns faster......but with him it is still burning also....

Remember these are just opinions by you, me, rook, savage and wayne.......each one can be substantiated in its own right.....It is not open and shut.....If the evidence you presented in a clinical trial for a new drug was the same evidence you presented about varitek there would not be a linear correlation.....too many variables and no controls...>There are many reasons why it could be happening....But you are 1 of the many wounded red sox fans who wants the easy way out....

Just answer this question please....

Would you agree that if we can not beat KC or TB then we have problems deeper than Varitek??? Is he the reason we lost those series??? I think if we can not hit triple A pitching we do not belong in any conversation about postseason (w or without #33)
Also Jason could not hit his way out of a paper bag this year and hit into countless double plays to end innings this year....

Again...this is only a red sox fans opinion..

[TwoTonTony]

I agree wholeheartedly.Where would Sox be without Papelbon?

or Papi winning games??

[wayne1218]

Guys, keep calling it a coincidence or an excuse. That's fine but i'm not calling it anything else but facts. Varitek is the key leader of this team and you can argue all you want that he isn't but they are .......


(63-41) WITH HIM

(6-12) SINCE HIS INJURY


How you keep telling us we are making "EXCUSES" are beyond me when it shows in the numbers!

[TwoTonTony]

Tony,

I'm just repeating myself here but i said this waaay back in this thread that the Front office is the bigger problem ... Arrgghhhh

i agree there.......They are making big $$$ there and do not want to spend haphazardly to compete with the yanks.....The franchise has increased in value ever since this management team bought it.....by alot....It is a great brand.....and they do not want to cut into the bottom line by adding more payroll

[TwoTonTony]

Guys, keep calling it a coincidence or an excuse. That's fine by i'm not calling it anything else but facts. Varitek is the key leader of this team and you can argue all you want that he isn't but they are .......


(63-41) WITH HIM

(6-12) SINCE HIS INJURY


How you keep telling us we are making "EXCUSES" are beyond me when it shows in the numbers!

wayne,

i do not think that takes into account the trend the sox were in after the all-star break even with #33...I think a more accurate stat would be their record after the also break with and without him....The other one is too large a sample over a longer period and does not tell anything about the trend and direction the team was heading even before the injury.....

Numbers do not always tell the whole truth and can be manipulated to say what you want them to say......Ask any mutual fund company!!!

[wayne1218]

wayne,

i do not think that takes into account the trend the sox were in after the all-star break even with #33...I think a more accurate stat would be their record after the also break with and without him....The other one is too large a sample over a longer period and does not tell anything about the trend and direction the team was heading even before the injury.....

Numbers do not always tell the whole truth and can be manipulated to say what you want them to say......Ask any mutual fund company!!!

(10-8) with him after the break Tony and still a Winning record. You can search or come up with different reasons why they are slumping but to me, it's OBVIOUS!