Update on internet gambling ban.

[savage1]

Dude, look out for the black helicopters hovering in your backyard.

You can laugh if you like, but believe me there are plenty of folks in prison now because they did something illegal in which they figured there was no way in hell they could get caught.

[JimmyBlaze]

savage1, perhaps you can create code words for us to use when we discuss our online betting. Maybe an enigma machine, but make sure it can't be broken this time.

[BettorsChat]

Whats next-the government is going to come to sites like this and arrest people for posting picks because they would be in effect encouraging other people to take the plays and play them someplace, which we all know is illegal other than in Las Vegas.
You know I was actually serious a while back when I warned several folks in this forum who admitted taking action and saying who they need in order to win;believe me there are plenty of lowlife politicians who would love to make waves by seeing some folks involved illegally in gambling get arrested and/or fined.
I wouldn't be terribly shocked to learn that there at the present time some government officials who read these threads and are compiling data to use in the future for some evil purpose;sure I may be a bit paranoid here, but I sure as heck would be careful at this point regarding what I say in a public gambling forum;there are some real nasty, envious, self serving pricks out there.

That's exactly what paid sports services do. And you stated that loose laws let them get around it, because they are for news information only.

[savage1]

That's exactly what paid sports services do. And you stated that loose laws let them get around it, because they are for news information only.

There is always the chance that some day the govt. will tighten up the laws and NOT allow sports services to exist at all no matter what they say if it is their(the govt.'s) best interest to do so, although I don't think it is on the immediate agenda.

[Spearit]

First thing we must do is to get a list of senators state side- addresses, email addys and so on. Next we need to form a letter that is complete in our violation of rights-- any attorneys will be helpful. We need to support and identify our lobbyists and stay in touch with the ongoings.

Will it make a difference? I don't know. But I do know what will happen if we don't speak out. This is an issue that challenges Americans to step to the plate for our rights. That's what this country has been about in the past and what we need to do to continue our freedoms.

Now to fully understand what is happening and how we fight it- we must know that the ground we stand on is solid. We must acknowledge things such as money going out of the US and IRS can't touch it and we are closing in on election year and so on as the premise of the Senate to act on this bill.

Don't forget what this may also imply-- books will have a 10 fold increase in runners and the lines will be askewed to their liking.

Organized Crime will also increase within the confines of the country- a type of terrorism in itself- especially if one can not pay. Possible - Yes Reality- Well think of the prohibition of alcohol and how the mafia tapped in- its very possible-- we certainly have a country full of gamblers- poker, dogs, horses, lotteries, etc has most households going for it.

Curbing gambling interests from becoming the prohibited alcohol of yesterday--- I believe it will become the panacea in which we will want to gamble even more- because we are not suppose to.

Let's get it done

[savage1]

I wonder if somewhere down the road (and this is really forward looking thinking) as a solution the government will allow internet gambling as long as each person registers and allows the government(IRS) to have access to all the bets made by the persons to ensure their net winnings (if they show a profit for the year) are reported when doing their taxes.
This would be akin to what is done with prostitutes in Nevada.
Just a thought(which I am sure has been mentioned in varying forms before).

[JimmyBlaze]

Speak for yourself you crazy dude. I am not going to bet at a place where the IRS gets a full report of my profits and losses. Move to las vegas jeeze.

[Spearit]

Possible- Savage -- because I truly believe gambling is out of control and to control it versus to ban it - may well be the ticket to harness it. Also -gamblers may make up such a large population as to actually have a voice for such.

As for you Jimmy B-- The IRS can't take what you don't have (Profits)

[JimmyBlaze]

First of all I'm a Libertarian and I believe in abolishing the IRS as it currently operates. So I don't support anything involving those corrupt bastards. I despise anyone who supports giving them more power and control over people's lives. Fuck anyone who does.

[Homer]

i read yesterday that they estimate 1 billion people will die from cigarette smoking in the next century

a few compulsive morons lose their house gambling

does gambling ever kill people like tobacco does??

this country is retarded, filled with religious fanatics who have their hands up the politicians ass, manipulating them with threats of losing votes

when are all these old school religious right cunts going to die off already and let us live

This whole thing isn't about People dieing from Tobacco isn't about people even losing their Houses. The USA Government doesn't give a FLYING FUCK about the people that live here.

Cut to the chase. This is all about the Government getting their hands in the Cookie Jar just like everything else.

They don't ban Smoking or Drinking because they tax the LOVING HELL out of it. Now they are just trying to get their cut in Gambling Profits from the offshore books and any person who makes a profit also.

Just my opinion :broom:

[Spearit]

Ease up Jimmy B. No one is happy about the IRS or govt. controlling us further. We lost more men in the civil war than all wars that we have fought combined due to the presence of government intervention. Many of my friends were loss due to an inept govt in Viet Nam- so ease up on the language.

From another site:
Response from Oly & Pinny on HR4411
Q). I would like to hear Pinnacle's thoughts on the recent legislation that passed the House of Representatives and now moves on to the Senate making it illegal for U.S. residents to gamble or place sports wagers online. Obviously I am very opposed to any sort of government interference in this matter and am very upset and disappointed with the entire situtation.


A) Olympic
The Greek's thoughts are that the Senate will not pass the bill.

Wally


A) Pinnacle
Dear Sir,

We regret to hear that you feel this way, however, Pinnacle Sports is licensed by the government of the Netherlands Antilles and provides a service based on the laws and regulations of this country.

We suggest you contact your local government regarding new legislation that may be in effect or passed in the future.

We would not comment on laws passed by another state.

Regards,

Customer Service Department
Pinnacle Sports


My reaction is one of surprise on the "company line" response from Pinny. Don't know why they can't understand I am pissed at my government for attempting to curtail my rights. The Greek at least indicates there is some hope, I guess time will tell.

[Spearit]

Response from another site:

Those responses are quite interesting, albeit a bit disappointing. You would think that as two of the "leaders" in this industry, they would take a more aggressive approach in defeating these legislative efforts. I don't know what, if anything, they can do. But I do think their response resembles an ostrich with its head in the sand. Pinnacle's response is especially troubling in my opinion. They can't even tell the difference between a state and federal law. It is like they sent you the canned Washington State response.

[Spearit]

Another response from the site

I wouldn't be too alarmed by Pinnacle's response. Just about any question you ask them is responded to with a form letter which is what that response was. That's my only complaint with Pinnacle is that it can take quite a few back & forths with email to get a problem resolved or question answered.

[Spearit]

Earlier News report-prior to the vote.

As the politicians wheel and deal, share prices take a few dents

The news late last week that the merged Goodlatte and Leach Bills could be debated in the House of Representatives as early as the middle of this week seemed to impact share prices on the London market.

With the prospect of difficulties in the important US market as a result of the legislation, which with a few notable and self interested exceptions seeks to hamper online gambling, some investors were clearly nervous.

PartyGaming fell 6 percent on Friday and 11 percent over the past two weeks, although admittedly the activities of certain key management people cashing in shares didn't help.

888 Holdings plc fell 2.3 percent on Friday; Sportingbet declined 7.6 percent the same day and 11 percent last week.

Empire Online Ltd. dropped by 3.2 percent on Friday and 8.1 percent last week.

One of the few online gaming companies to even mildly buck the pessimistic trend was turnkey provider and software developer Playtech, which actually rose marginally on Friday, but was still down 7 percent for the week. That could change with good results, and Playtech is due to publish its second quarter numbers on July 26.

Investor nervousness aside, it should be remembered that even if the House of Representatives passes the merged Goodlatte and Leach Bills, it is not the end of the legislative road (or the companies affected by this ongoing attempted banning activity) by a long way.

The movement to investigate the industry in a sensible and unbiased manner is gaining momentum with some influential backing, the industry's growth path continues to strengthen an already very significant industry and international markets are growing.

The US Senate Judiciary Committee still has to debate its own version of an anti-online gambling bill, too. With Congressional electioneering in prospect ahead of the November elections, and a limited timeframe for this session this sort of legislation could find itself extensively attacked and in trouble, as was the case in the past.

The Sacramento Bee commented this week on the politicians' attempted to cripple the industry, pointing out that election-year politics in the United States have placed online gambling at the top of the political deck.

In an article by Todd Milbourn, the publication draws attention to the positioning of the Goodlatte and Leach Bill as one of the 10 items listed (alongside tax cuts and a flag burning amendment) on the "American Values Agenda" Republicans rolled out earlier this year. This is clearly a device to get the legislation on the floor to avoid it running out of time again.

But Milbourn comments that it might be too late to corral Internet gambling, anyway. He points to the developments to regulate rather than ban in the United Kingdom, and says that more than a third of Internet gamblers are Americans, according to research commissioned by the American Gaming Association.

"The fact is people are gambling online, and they're going to continue to do it," Milbourn quotes Holly Thomsen, a spokeswoman for the AGA. "What the U.S. needs to do is find a way to deal with it."

Milbourn takes a look at the confused US legal position on Internet gambling from both the Department of Justice point of view that it is illegal, to the rulings of US judges that show that its legality is at the very least debateable.

Illustrating the point, he quotes Martin D. Owens, a Sacramento attorney who is an authority on online gambling law, and says: "Basically, it's a mess."

Owens offered an example: "Say we got an online poker room and one guy is from Australia, one is from New York, one is from California and the server is in Antigua. Now, who has jurisdiction? I haven't gotten a straight answer to that in five years."

The complexity of who to ban has forced anti-gambling interests in Washington to alter their tactics.

Politicians once focused on passing an outright ban, but that was complicated because it appears that some types of Internet betting are *acceptable* to powerful lobbies, whilst others are apparently not. That led to "carve outs" that not everyone was happy about.

Instead, they're now going after the financing. The Leach Bill seeks to outlaw the use of U.S.-based bank checks or credit cards to pay online casinos, sportsbooks and poker room deposits with a view to gambling. In fact, the US banks have been imposing a similar restriction for years, and it hasn't stopped the industry.

Even that could be a source of argument. David Robertson, president of the National Coalition Against Legalized Gambling, one of several powerful lobbying groups backing the conservative agenda says Leach's bill is a step in the right direction, but doesn't go as far as he'd like. For example, he said, the bill excludes the politically powerful horse racing industry, which profits mightily from legal U.S.-based sites like youbet.com.

Owens, the lawyer, acknowledged that Internet gambling poses risks. But he said it's hypocritical to single out one style of play.

"Here's the country that has Las Vegas, Atlantic City, riverboats up to Iowa and Indian gambling under every tree. Not to mention state lotteries," said Owens. "Now you're going to turn around and say Internet casinos are undermining the moral tone of the United States? It's just plain silly."

[savage1]

Speak for yourself you crazy dude. I am not going to bet at a place where the IRS gets a full report of my profits and losses. Move to las vegas jeeze.

I didn't say I was in favor of it;I was just saying what might happen.