Reasons for Collapse of Red Sox

[gizmo]

What don't you understand Wayne he has 12 wins ,thats 12 wins I don't give a fuck if his ERA is 100 he has 12 fucking wins ,agreed his #s r bad and he has gotten good run support but not on his wins.When he has won he has pitched well and when he has lost he has pitched bad.

You say its his fault because he killed the bullpen, well lets see how that works out for you.

Going into tonight :
Lester 29 starts 183 innings
Beckett 28 starts 179.2 innings
Lackey 27 starts 154

So 2 more starts and 1 more start for the #1 and #2 starters and a difference of only 29 innings and 25.2 ,I would think that this wouldnt be the reason they are losing ALL there games.

And I already said I would take Lester and Beckett over any other top 2 on any team.I think you need to reread and understand you r all over the place, probably because they cant even beat the orioles

[wayne1218]

You say its his fault because he killed the bullpen, well lets see how that works out for you.

I addressed that too gizmo but you refuse to accept anything you hear so what is the sense. He is averaging 5.7 innings per start. Lester and Beckett are at 6.3 and 6.4

It probably doesn't sound like much to you but that extra 2-3 outs matters when you are surrounded by guys like Miller, Wakefield and Weiland ... but i wouldn't expect you to understand that.

[wayne1218]

I addressed that too gizmo but you refuse to accept anything you hear so what is the sense. He is averaging 5.7 innings per start. Lester and Beckett are at 6.3 and 6.4

It probably doesn't sound like much to you but that extra 2-3 outs matters when you are surrounded by guys like Miller, Wakefield and Weiland ... but i wouldn't expect you to understand that.

and when you are getting a whopping 9.35 runs of support, most would expect you to be able to hang around longer than 5.7 and eat some innings. Again, not shocked though if you don't get that.

[wayne1218]

In September Lackey has been at his best!

4 starts and only 17.2 innings pitched, while giving up 31 hits and 9 walks, along with 21 earned runs. He has been nothing short of spectacular!!!!

[savage1]

What an ugly what will probably be the last game of the year at Fenway for Sox fans!

[gizmo]

Lackey is not ur #1 but you keep saying he should be pitching like one.He stole money so what. I played with and against Matt Morris,Joe Nathan,ur own Mike Aviles ,Walt Weiss,Joe Sottolano coach for Army,Jeff Marks,Dave Telgheder and many more I cant think of at this moment so for me to know anything about baseball may be out of my league your right, o thats wrong im sorry u r always right!!!!!!!!!!

[wayne1218]

Lackey is not ur #1 but you keep saying he should be pitching like one.He stole money so what. I played with and against Matt Morris,Joe Nathan,ur own Mike Aviles ,Walt Weiss,Joe Sottolano coach for Army,Jeff Marks,Dave Telgheder and many more I cant think of at this moment so for me to know anything about baseball may be out of my league your right, o thats wrong im sorry u r always right!!!!!!!!!!

who you played with. It means nothing to me. I can put a band aid on my finger. It doesn't make me a doctor. Look above at the numbers and argue them for me. Oh that's right, YOU CAN'T!

[gizmo]

AJ Burnetts last 13 starts inning pitched:

4
6
6
5.1
5
1.2
5.2
6
4.1
8
5.2
5.1
5.2

WOW this looks almost like what John Lackey has done and this guy was suppose to be the #2 starter and for some reason they are still winning games.

Putting a band aid on your finger doesnt mean shit to me but maybe if you followed the Doctor or Doctors around you may learn something after 20 years

[10DimeBry]

What don't you understand Wayne he has 12 wins ,thats 12 wins I don't give a fuck if his ERA is 100 he has 12 fucking wins ,agreed his #s r bad and he has gotten good run support but not on his wins.When he has won he has pitched well and when he has lost he has pitched bad.

You say its his fault because he killed the bullpen, well lets see how that works out for you.

Going into tonight :
Lester 29 starts 183 innings
Beckett 28 starts 179.2 innings
Lackey 27 starts 154

So 2 more starts and 1 more start for the #1 and #2 starters and a difference of only 29 innings and 25.2 ,I would think that this wouldnt be the reason they are losing ALL there games.

And I already said I would take Lester and Beckett over any other top 2 on any team.I think you need to reread and understand you r all over the place, probably because they cant even beat the orioles

the main issue i have is "wins" dont mean jack. I mean a hack minor league pitcher could go out give up 6 or 8 earned runs in 5innings and if his team scores 7 or 9 runs for him he gets a win. big deal...dont mean he is a good pitcher.

look at it like this. if all pitching categories are equal(which i dont believe) look at lackey's. Wins 12 loses 12 K' 104 era 6.49 whip 1.63


12 wins will say is good
12 loses bad
104 k's bad
6.49 era bad
1.63 whip bad

thats 1 good 4 bad = bad pitcher no 2 ways around it.

[robby_morini]

What an ugly what will probably be the last game of the year at Fenway for Sox fans!

Excruciating. I was a kid, but I remember 1978 and the collapse..... if they blow this, this late in the season, it will be one of the worst chokes in Red Sox history. Although not over, you can't lose 3 of 4 to one of the worst team in baseball and expect to play in October.

Wayne nailed it...pitching. Wake me up in a week, hopefully this nightmare will be over

[10DimeBry]

oh fyi, im not trying to argue. im just simply saying John lackey sucks and is a fraud. he was solid in LA but for boston he is a bum.

[wayne1218]

oh fyi, im not trying to argue. im just simply saying John lackey sucks and is a fraud. he was solid in LA but for boston he is a bum.

My point exactly ... but some will argue that!

[gizmo]

You guys keep getting caught up on his ERA his WHIP whatever it is. You guys are talking about him like he is on your fantasy baseball team, this is not fantasy baseball.

Here are his wins:

Innings pitched and Earned Runs:

5 and 6
8 and 0
5.2 and 3
6 and 4
8 and 4
6.2 and 0
5.2 and 3
7 and 1
5.2 and 3
6 and 3
6 and 4
6.2 and 4

and he also took losses in games where he was:

6 and 1
6 and 2
7.2 and 2
6.2 and 3
7 and 4

These to me don't look to bad but you cant get over his ERA and Whip which in the other 10 games r horrible.

And I know you said you dont want to argue but WINs BTW are the MOST important thing. Who cares if you ERA is 3 and your whip is 1.2 but you don't win.They say oh he pitched well but didnt get any run support so where does that get your team it only gets him a better contract from someone else.WIN WIN WIN WIN thats all you need to do.You think the Ravens have given back there super bowl rings because there offense stunk,no I dont either the object is to win.

[10DimeBry]

Lackey is not ur #1 but you keep saying he should be pitching like one.He stole money so what. I played with and against Matt Morris,Joe Nathan,ur own Mike Aviles ,Walt Weiss,Joe Sottolano coach for Army,Jeff Marks,Dave Telgheder and many more I cant think of at this moment so for me to know anything about baseball may be out of my league your right, o thats wrong im sorry u r always right!!!!!!!!!!

that's cool. Matt Morris is from upstate ny like me. I always followed him cause of that. even though he was from 1 1/2hrs south of me. I always try to follow and root for local sports ppl. like tim stauffer who is from about 10min from where i live for example.

[10DimeBry]

You guys keep getting caught up on his ERA his WHIP whatever it is. You guys are talking about him like he is on your fantasy baseball team, this is not fantasy baseball.

Here are his wins:

Innings pitched and Earned Runs:

5 and 6
8 and 0
5.2 and 3
6 and 4
8 and 4
6.2 and 0
5.2 and 3
7 and 1
5.2 and 3
6 and 3
6 and 4
6.2 and 4

and he also took losses in games where he was:

6 and 1
6 and 2
7.2 and 2
6.2 and 3
7 and 4

These to me don't look to bad but you cant get over his ERA and Whip which in the other 10 games r horrible.

And I know you said you dont want to argue but WINs BTW are the MOST important thing. Who cares if you ERA is 3 and your whip is 1.2 but you don't win.They say oh he pitched well but didnt get any run support so where does that get your team it only gets him a better contract from someone else.WIN WIN WIN WIN thats all you need to do.You think the Ravens have given back there super bowl rings because there offense stunk,no I dont either the object is to win.

you may agree or disagree but IMO a quality start is giving up 3 runs or less in a start.

by my account of what you have provided lackey has made 11 quality starts. he started 27games YTD. that means 16 starts werent quality or below average. basically he sucked in the other 16starts regardless of the actual outcome of game w/l or ND.