Topic Question for the Forum

[Lucky Leo]

Thanks Ty. I pointed that out to a buddy and he started watching it too. We both agreed something was going on. I noticed it one day when I couldn't understand the spread. Then talked to Homer and he got me on the right side against Miami and from there on it was a fixed ride.

[savage1]

Tell us Ty what specifically YOUR "scouts" do, and also do you stick by your statement on the other thread that your payroll, which I assume includes "scouts" is $80000 a week or $4 million, $160 thousand a year?
Are you saying that you are one of the select ones who receives this privileged/inside information that you talk about which decides the poinstpread winner?

[Lucky Leo]

And speaking of point shaving. Another Big East team I believe is shaving points is Syracuse. McNamara has got to be shaving points on that team.

[smartmoneysport]

little was made of this one

two years ago when florida st. qb adrian macpherson was walking around with a blank check made out to him. Who do you think that was from when the week before they were 32 point chalk against n. carolina. up 38 with less than two minutes left and he fumbles near his own goal line.


cooincidence I think not

[Lucky Leo]

Yep I remember when all that happened. He was in debt to the bookie so he might have done it just to get his debt erase. I don't think they ever covered with him starting. I am not sure but does he play in the arena league?

[Lucky Leo]

Yes he is playing quarterback for Indiana.

[Buzz]

While I make it a personal policy not to comment on any other service I do have an opinion on this question

"The topic/question is whether you believe that any sports services actually employ scouts to help them determine which team will cover sports contests."

While I certainly feel it is possible for the general public to come across some timely information or benifit from a personal contact, I find it very unlikely that any service employs "scouts". I certainly believe a service may have freinds in different cities that may give them some insight to a game, but actual hard information that would be helpful, significant and is not already factored into the line is doubtful. Possible but doubtful. As far as I am concerned this is just a marketing angle. I am a big believer that your clients will be a direct reflection on your marketing effort. This type of marketing effort whether on the Internet or Phone, most likely will attract the inexperienced or guys in a jam looking for a quick fix. This is an issue that can be frustrating to me, but not possible for me to control. Personally these are not the type of players I look to partner with anyway.

Ask yourself some of these quetions

What happens to a game when unusual action on it takes place in Nevada or offshore. How does Vegas know this is happening? If you had actual hard information that would be helpful, significant and is not already factored into the line, why would you sell this information and how consistenly could you get this information?

Would anyone in baseball have had better information than Pete Rose calling other managers before games from the clubhouse? How could he lose with this information?

Does Vegas have injury reports before the general public? Ever hear about an injury and then try to get down on a game before the line moves? In the majority of cases the line moves before it goes public. If there is a question about a players status the game will most likely be off the board anyway. Vegas was slow with the Duncan information the other day but how many times has this happend this year?

Why would a scout employed by a major professional organization risk there job dealing with known gamblers? They are not exempt from professional and NCAA regulations. Why does each league have their own internal private security team.

Off course games have been fixed, do you think anyone fixing a game is going to let the cat out of the bag which would create unusual action on a team?

How were the kids in Arizona caught?. Unusual action that Saturday morning? Was the NCAA on campus investigating before the ball even tipped that day?

The biggest players are the most private and have to spread their action over multiple books not to draw attention. You will not know what they are on until their bets are completed or they trust you. Does this mean they are good gamblers? No. It just means they are playing enough to move lines.

Anyway you slice or dice a service it is buyer beware just like anything else in life. If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is. To me it is more important to be low key and deal with mature individuals that have their gaming habits under control and have a long term approach. The last thing that I want to here from a client is I need a big game to bail out on. It is time to stop ASAP and regoup at that point. You have to have a system and stick to the system or you will lose overtime. I have personally dropped the GAME Of ANYTHINGS because it encourages poor money management. The bottom line is this. Money Management, Studying, Discipline, Understanding lines and movement, Public teams, trends, Stats, etc...These are musts if you want to win day to day. Many on the main board here are very solid but also seem to have the time to follow things day to day. I will tell you most of the services posting in this area are marketing to the readers of the board, not the daily posters on the main board. Most of my clients have the ability to get the same information any service has, they just lack the time, desire, energy and experience to put it all together. They would rather find someone they trust and work in conjuction with their own handicapping when they have time or if they don't have time they want games from a trusted source. My personal approach has been to post games, be honest, monitored and win overtime. If I do this I will be noticed by the type of clients that I desire to have and hopefully have a benificial long term win/win relationship.

Ask yourself these questions when you are evaluating a service. I think most honest cappers will agree with this.

Records: Touts: Publishes selective records, promotes current successes and hides defeats

Goals: Touts: Create a need for today's games via a marketing campaign and everyday special play games

Fees: Touts charge high to very high fees. Anywhere from $350.00 to $2500 per month

Money Management: Does the service you are looking at have a solid money management system? Do they constantly load up each day on a special play game?

Good Luck
Buzz

[savage1]

Buzz-That was one terrific post.
Coming from a reputable service like you, in my mind it solidifes even more my thinking that paid "scouts" by my definition simply don't exist.
My very specific definition of a paid scout re: a service would be a group of individuals hired and paid by the service to travel around the country and go the various sites both college and pro , and whose sole purpose is to specifically dig up information which they could gather BEFORE the public and most importantly Las Vegas to get an edge.
In spite of what others might say, I don't believe that these folks exist on a fulltime basis, and if they did, over the long haul it would be a waste of money and NOT cost effective for the service to pay them.
I agree with you that on a rare occasion a capper or anyone for that matter might get him an edge before the line moved.
But day in and day out, I don't believe "scouts" as I have defined it exist, and I am more convinced than ever that it is STRICTLY a marketing tool.
Thanks again for such an enlightening and well thought out post, not just about scouts but about many, many things which will help all players.

[mvpwins]

Savage1 asked for sports services to give their input , so here is ours:

We at MVP WINS do not hire scouts.......we do it with HARD work and MONEY Management. It's the only way to win in Sports Gambling. There are No "LOCK of the YEAR" or "LOCK of the MONTH or WEEK etc...etc. That is all just promotional wording to get you hooked. Are there sports handi-capping services out there that have scouts and insider info?? Maybe, and maybe they have to pay alot for that "inside info" they get. When you have a high overhead, you have a high price for what you sell. So in turn this is usually the case with inside info and scouts. If they claim they have it, they might, but it usually just means they have to pay for info and it still does not gaurantee a victory. Anything can happen in a game and usually will.

We study all the stats and trends and injury reports and late breaking news and stories that are available. We at MVP WINS use the information out there for everyone to see and give an educated pick of our plays. With that we use a money management system which is a must to be successful in any form of GAMBLING. We post our statistics daily WIN or LOSE for everyone to see. We will tell you if we lost $200 or $500 with our plays and we will also tell you when we win $200 or $500. We charge a very reasonable fee for our picks, usually less than the vig you would play on a 1 game loss. We provide our customers and vistors to our site with FREE premium plays. Last week we gave out a FREE week of Premium Plays to anyone who just sent us an email. We lost DAY 1 and Day 7 and we had a positive DAY 2-6. We went 50 - 37 - 4 in the 7 Day promotion for a + $810. And yes we had 2 losing Days in there. We can document this because we also sent these picks to other sports services in this forum. And in the past 7 days we have posted in this forum a 6-1 record in FREE selections. We know everyday cannot be a winner, but we give you the best available edge by studying and making the best possible selections we feel will make the most profit. Are plays and money management will also help reduce the risk of heavy losses in a losing day.

So I hope this answers the question and tells a little bit about how we do things in this industry. No need to bash anyone or any other service. We do things in a very legitimate and honest style. Take us or leave us, we feel we give a reputable service to our clients without claiming anything about "inside info" or "scouting reports" and we just give our hard work to you for the service we provide at a very low and reasonable price.

[savage1]

MVP-ok. I respect your opinion, and thanks for response.
Now lets put the shoe on the other foot.
Lets say you were a bettor and NOT a service;I would assume that sometime in your life this was true.
If my premise is correct, please, if you want to, answer the follwing question:
If you were looking for a service which claimed or implied they had a number of scouts scattered around at various gamesites and cities gathering information which would increase your chances of winning, would you personally believe it and/or be more tempted or less tempted to join the service?
You know what my response would be; what would yours be?
Buzz and other services are welcome to respond this also.

[S49erman]

ty is full of shit..... Anyone who has don best service knew that kobe was going to play..... I think it was even more than 10 minutes before the game.

[savage1]

Sf49erman-good point.
I knew he was playing before the game started, and even if I didn't, all one had to do was see line go from 3 to 5 in plenty of time to bet it to know he was playing.
I seriously doubt if any service knew that Kobe was playing and was able to bet the game at 3, not that it mattered.
ps I don't consider Don Best a "scout" by my definition.

[mvpwins]

Yes, I bet on games, I bet our plays daily! I have been betting on games for over 17 years now.

To answer your question as a "BETTOR" I would most likely stay away from a service who could not back up what they say with facts. In my years of betting, I have used some services and found some to be good and some to be bad.

I find the ones that tend to tout the usual "Lock of the year" and "inside info" type advertisement to be the ones to watch out for. This is only an opinion (my opinion) and I am not singling out any one specificially.

I suggest for anyone choosing a service, to test them out. Email them and ask them for a few days FREE of thier PAID PICKS. Track the service and see how they stack up. If they do well and you feel it is a reliable and reputable service and you aren't paying more for the picks than you are winning............then go for it, you probably found yourself a good service.

If you ask for FREE paid picks and they don't respond to your request for FREE paid picks or they just say no, then I would probably stay away from that service.

I created our service with the idea of the things I liked about the good services I have encountered. I took all the best things they did and wrapped them into one, and thats what we do. We don't make much money on our plays, but we do it because we want to have other bettors like ourselves have a reliable service they can count on and hopefully show them the discipline to make money in this very exciting industry of Sports Betting.

[Ty Gaston]

SAVAGE1 ASSUMING AGAIN!

Savage1: I explained here in your thread about scouts in full and I took it a step further in detail about OTHER things as well. The point being made is if you have enough information and enough sources, a person can rely on that information and those sources and make more money gambling. My payroll runs $80,000 per week on average from September 1st, through May 1st yearly, my employees work 8 months on, 4 months off.

I NEVER CLAIMED 4.1 million in payroll, you ASSUMED that based on a 52 week year!

With the explanation I posted earlier, I (my sources) were heads up to, an privy of, everything mentioned with the exception of the World Series Scandal ( I wasnt even born yet).

I never said the privileged inside information decides (guarantees) the outcome of the pointspread, it just gives you a much higher chance of beating the pointspread. (nothing is guaranteed)

Just because a person has a scout, alumni, personnel within, doesnt necessarily reflect the game is for sure. Scouts, alumni, and personnel within are privy of the teams they are associated with. Thus a person privy to this information they receive must dissect it, investigate it, and make a determination as to whether or not use that information in his betting propositions!

I make the final determination from all information I receive. Just because my nephew played for Boise St when I was in Hawaii, didnt mean I was betting on Boise St. But knowing the offensive gameplan of the Bronco's, the assistants and head coach personally of Boise, the motivation of the team, the injury to a key wide receiver on Boise, and the rotation of quarterbacks for Hawaii (jones didnt know who he was gonna start) I still made the determination I felt, based on the information I was given, that Boise St would hopefully cover against Hawaii, (which they did).

And because a person (myself) is affiliated with such individuals, it is not against NCAA regulations to speak to me or be a friend to me. These people knew me as an uncle to a player on thier team, not know me as a sports bettor.

In closing I would say "yes" I am a select one who receives privileged inside information from people I employ, who do thier jobs, and get paid for it, but I don't GUARANTEE that information to help decide a pointspread, but I do feel it gives me an distinct added advantage over joe blow reading newspapers or doing stats to try to determine who may or may not win a ballgame, or for that matter a fight, a round of golf, or a horserace.

Ty Gaston

[JCDSPORTS]

Nice post MVP

JCDSPORTS also agrees with everything you have said. We were formed by 4 men who were disgusted with the way services tout themselves and the way services lie to the public. We tell you when we win and when we lose (and we had a terrible day yesterday) and we post our winners AND LOSERS on our website everyday so that our clients and others know that we do not give out Team A to one half of the country and Team B to the other half of the country. We do not believe in "lock games of the year" as the smart player knows that there is no such thing as a lock. We handicap games based on trends, stats,etc. and try to find the edges by doing the leg work that our clients can't or do not have the time to do.
Sport services are paid by their clients to do the work that they do not have the resources or time to do. We believe in giving free trials to anyone that should ask and we also offer a pay after you win special every week. I believe that some services may have friends around the country that help with some inside info and I know for a fact that some games are fixed. I personally was involved in the Tulane point shaving deal years ago ( we are located in New Orleans ), not as a service but as a bettor so I know that does happen, however I believe it is not as rampant as people think.
Spouting off about "lock games and inside info" is merely a marketing tool that some people actually like to see. We do not market ourselves like this but we do not condemn other services for doing this because some bettors like hearing the words such as "100000 Star GOY and INSIDE INFO".
Services try to sell themselves in different ways. I curse and sometimes get vulgar when I am with friends and we are talking and joking, but we would NEVER call someone on these forums some of the words I have seen on here. First, a service has to expect some bashing because the public perception of us is not good. We understand this and try to have class about what we say and do. We got our butts handed to us yesterday and we expect some bashing from our clients and forum readers. That goes with the territory and after yesterday, we deserve it. We pat ourselves on the back after a great day and kick ourselves after a bad day.
Most people are not stupid and they know when they are being told a line of bull. We respect ourselves AND OUR CLIENTS by being honest with them and We feel other services should do the same.MVP, Sports wizards, and some others on this forum are stand up services as we have seen them on other sites and they are ones who conduct themself with class.
I hope I wasn't to long winded and I hope this answer our opinion on the question that Savage 1 has asked.
Thanks and good luck today.
Dave
JCDSPORTS