The Day America Died

[TwoTonTony]

We've already had people suspected of being terriost held for years that were later released, because they weren't.

As for this being a Free Country it was at one time, but is becoming more and more a dictatorship IMO.

I think it is far from a dictatorship.....It still has checks and balances...More than a dictatorship it has become a government that serves special interest groups and not the people....Also politics has become so partisan that the issues are being lost...It is either vote dem or rep.......Bothers me

[fuzzebear]

It's funny, everyone bashes this administration for Iraq and its policies. If everyone is so smart what is the right thing to do here?? Let's hear it....and are you 1000% your course of action is the right thing to do? Is Bush right in doing what he is doing? I don't know. Only time will tell. What is the right thing to do?? And you better be right. Bush knows things we do not which might sway his decisions on certain things...so if you are all experts and don't like the way things are being run let's hear how to do it right...

[TwoTonTony]

It's funny, everyone bashes this administration for Iraq and its policies. If everyone is so smart what is the right thing to do here?? Let's hear it....and are you 1000% your course of action is the right thing to do? Is Bush right in doing what he is doing? I don't know. Only time will tell. What is the right thing to do?? And you better be right. Bush knows things we do not which might sway his decisions on certain things...so if you are all experts and don't like the way things are being run let's hear how to do it right...

I do not believe there is an absolute right or wrong for anything.....There are always tough decisions to be made and without the luxury of looking in the rear view mirror...I am not a politician and do not know the answers.....I do however support the spirit of the bill and what is designed to do...But i also see its shortcomings by giving too much power to a certain branch and the possibility of an american citizen being held without his civil rights.....I do however believe this has been recognized and will be rectified on the senate floor.....

Nobody has all the answers...The dems will lead you to believe they do...they do not...The republicans do not either....The solution usually lies somewhere in between.....

[BettorsChat]

I think it is far from a dictatorship.....It still has checks and balances...More than a dictatorship it has become a government that serves special interest groups and not the people....Also politics has become so partisan that the issues are being lost...It is either vote dem or rep.......Bothers me

Uh, banning gambling on a port bill, telling gays they can't marry, passing a terroist bill that can lock anyone up, passing a bill the patriot act to eves drop on anyone etc.

I'm saying that its becoming more and more like a dictatorship not that its one right now. Meaning things need to be changed. These people that run our Country need to start looking out for the best of the humans and not their own personal $

[BettorsChat]

It's funny, everyone bashes this administration for Iraq and its policies. If everyone is so smart what is the right thing to do here?? Let's hear it....and are you 1000% your course of action is the right thing to do? Is Bush right in doing what he is doing? I don't know. Only time will tell. What is the right thing to do?? And you better be right. Bush knows things we do not which might sway his decisions on certain things...so if you are all experts and don't like the way things are being run let's hear how to do it right...

Already answered this in another thread on what I think needs to be done in the House and Senate etc. to make things more even and more right. And everyone could talk till there blue in the face and get nothing done. The only way to get something down is to elect the right people and get more people voting. The voting turnouts in this Country are absurd.

[TwoTonTony]

Uh, banning gambling on a port bill, telling gays they can't marry, passing a terroist bill that can lock anyone up, passing a bill the patriot act to eves drop on anyone etc.

I'm saying that its becoming more and more like a dictatorship not that its one right now. Meaning things need to be changed. These people that run our Country need to start looking out for the best of the humans and not their own personal $

Gambling is illegal.......Gays shouldn't be able to marry legally.....

Just because YOU do not like the laws does not make the Process a dictatorship.....I could cite a lot of examples where i feel laws are fucked up the other way in which our society has become too lenient and twisted IMHO......Do not confuse the type of laws to the process that they are adminisitered.....You have no idea what a real dictatorship is.....really.....The ACLU gives way too many rights IMO to many people who sue over the drop of the hat....I believe the pendulum has swung too far off kilter anyways where a fucking drig smuggler testifies against 2 border patrol agents and we drop charges to put these guys away for 10 and 11 years.......They shot at him and did not report it since they believed he got away/....they were doing their job.....The non-reporting has always been a written warning penalty....but not now...the ACLU got involved and we wanted to prove something to the mexican gov't...(what i do not know)....But because the ACLU determines that a fuckng drug smuggler's rights were violated we put away 2 good guys who were doing their job....Now that is fucked up......You want all things liberal and a fucking free for all........that to me is the perversion of justice that is more dangerous!!

Sure, things need to change, but blame special interests and the politicians for bending for them....It is both parties too......

[TwoTonTony]

Already answered this in another thread on what I think needs to be done in the House and Senate etc. to make things more even and more right. And everyone could talk till there blue in the face and get nothing done. The only way to get something down is to elect the right people and get more people voting. The voting turnouts in this Country are absurd.

What does the voting turnout suggest??? it suggests americans do not believe in the system and they do not make a difference........That whoever thye elect will represent special interests over theirs....plain and simple....We are disillusioned....I still vote....but i have stopped believing in an honest politician

[BettorsChat]

Gambling is illegal.......Gays shouldn't be able to marry legally.....

Just because YOU do not like the laws does not make the Process a dictatorship.....I could cite a lot of examples where i feel laws are fucked up the other way in which our society has become too lenient and twisted IMHO......Do not confuse the type of laws to the process that they are adminisitered.....You have no idea what a real dictatorship is.....really.....The ACLU gives way too many rights IMO to many people who sue over the drop of the hat....I believe the pendulum has swung too far off kilter anyways where a fucking drig smuggler testifies against 2 border patrol agents and we drop charges to put these guys away for 10 and 11 years.......They shot at him and did not report it since they believed he got away/....they were doing their job.....The non-reporting has always been a written warning penalty....but not now...the ACLU got involved and we wanted to prove something to the mexican gov't...(what i do not know)....But because the ACLU determines that a fuckng drug smuggler's rights were violated we put away 2 good guys who were doing their job....Now that is fucked up......You want all things liberal and a fucking free for all........that to me is the perversion of justice that is more dangerous!!

Sure, things need to change, but blame special interests and the politicians for bending for them....It is both parties too......

gambling is illegal? Tell that to the 32 States that have lotteries, all of the States with Casinos, Horse Racing, Dog Racing and lets not forget the whole State of Nevada. That is hypocrisy!

Who said anything about the ACLU?

A lot of people IMO are born gay. So why shouldn't they be allowed to be married? Do you think they are going to hell?

Once again I didn't say this Country is a dictatorship I said its becoming more and more like it.

Your Statements about Lawsuits are the same as Republicans. There are a lot of BS lawsuits, but that's what the Courts are for then the appeals Courts. What you hardly ever hear is what happens to the after effect in the appeals Courts as the media likes printing where granny got millions for McDonalds coffee that burned her. As that sells papers not that the appeals Court reduced it way down to almost nothing.

[BettorsChat]

What does the voting turnout suggest??? it suggests americans do not believe in the system and they do not make a difference........That whoever thye elect will represent special interests over theirs....plain and simple....We are disillusioned....I still vote....but i have stopped believing in an honest politician

Exactly that people don't give a damn. The reason is because all Politicans are in favor of themselves. That's why I outlined suggestions in another thread on what could help with these problems.

[jordanrules23]

why anyone would watch BillMaher is beyond me

[BettorsChat]

why anyone would watch BillMaher is beyond me

Have you tried?

[jordanrules23]

yea, and all he does is bash the Republican party.....Him and Rush,(bashes Democrates) are whats wrong with this country, they put so much tension and ppl are divided into 2 or 3 diff political views, they're is so much hate between the 2 parties and i dont see and end to it either.......

[swismswasm666]

about that torture/detainee bill

Let me just chime in about that bill: to me, it reflects how much we have lost our sense of history, of what makes this country great. Part of what DEFINES this Nation, truly, is the fact that, in reponse to the tyranny of the King of England, we created such a thing as the writ of habeas corpus, to guarantee the right of individuals to question their detainment; to go before a neutral arbiter to challenge their confinement as unlawful. We have faced challenges of massive proportions before (see slavery, Nazis)- yet, we act as though, in this case, we must violate all of our most basic notions in order to succeed. This is the result of fear-mongering.

Let me just say about this bill, to allow indefinite confinement without charging someone, and to prevent review by the federal courts to challenge that confinement, is to take away the very sort of thing that gives this country any claim to superiority over other countries/governments. So, in asserting our superiority, we cannot defile that which gives us that authority.

In response to criticisms like mine, I am told that I support terrorists. I want to protect terrorists. NO- I want to protect people wrongly accused of terrorism. When Jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin, Madison, etc. created our Consitution and this government, would we accuse them, in creating these rights, of protecting murderers and robbers? NO- they were protecting people who may be falsely accused of such crimes. And the reality is that, in our history, we have never been precise enough in our enforcement to avoid mistaken accusations. As long as this is so, we must provide a safety net, in the form of habeas, to prevent ourselves from wrongly stripping freedom and liberty from innocents. This includes innocents who may not look like us, or have the same skin color or, god forbid, religious beliefs.

Good discussion.

[BettorsChat]

yea, and all he does is bash the Republican party.....Him and Rush,(bashes Democrates) are whats wrong with this country, they put so much tension and ppl are divided into 2 or 3 diff political views, they're is so much hate between the 2 parties and i dont see and end to it either.......

I've seen him make fun of the Democrats as well.

There won't be an end to the parties not getting along as its getting worse all the time. Instead of actually debating its about BS.

[BettorsChat]

Let me just chime in about that bill: to me, it reflects how much we have lost our sense of history, of what makes this country great. Part of what DEFINES this Nation, truly, is the fact that, in reponse to the tyranny of the King of England, we created such a thing as the writ of habeas corpus, to guarantee the right of individuals to question their detainment; to go before a neutral arbiter to challenge their confinement as unlawful. We have faced challenges of massive proportions before (see slavery, Nazis)- yet, we act as though, in this case, we must violate all of our most basic notions in order to succeed. This is the result of fear-mongering.

Let me just say about this bill, to allow indefinite confinement without charging someone, and to prevent review by the federal courts to challenge that confinement, is to take away the very sort of thing that gives this country any claim to superiority over other countries/governments. So, in asserting our superiority, we cannot defile that which gives us that authority.

In response to criticisms like mine, I am told that I support terrorists. I want to protect terrorists. NO- I want to protect people wrongly accused of terrorism. When Jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin, Madison, etc. created our Consitution and this government, would we accuse them, in creating these rights, of protecting murderers and robbers? NO- they were protecting people who may be falsely accused of such crimes. And the reality is that, in our history, we have never been precise enough in our enforcement to avoid mistaken accusations. As long as this is so, we must provide a safety net, in the form of habeas, to prevent ourselves from wrongly stripping freedom and liberty from innocents. This includes innocents who may not look like us, or have the same skin color or, god forbid, religious beliefs.

Good discussion.

Exactly and we have had people arrested that were held for years already and never charged then let go.