A-Fraud

[BettorsChat]

Originally posted by meteor
ortiz has put up big numbers the last couple of years, is a yankee killer and certainly this year has been a clutch playoff performer. he is very popular with the fans and also seems to be a great team guy in a very tight nit clubhouse. i don't think the red sox would trade him for rodriguez no way.

[wayne1218]

A-Rod is a great player and i wanted him badly when the rumor surfaced but with that said, look at the numbers AND their salaries and try telling me how much more valuable Arod was, is. He was in the past and may be in the future but basing it on the here and now Ortiz is the clear winner in this argument (THIS YEAR). JMO

[jordanrules23]

c'mon, everyone....Arod is the best player in baseball...#5 and #15 right behind him.....he batted in the 2 hole and had a good post season.....Is it his fault the rangers gave him that money????granted he did what he did at 1st base the other day...Still he WILL be a winner in NY....Hes already one of the best 3rd baseman in the league and never played it before, this was his 1st season in the spotlight really....Next year will be a monster for him...Hes too god not to have agreat year every year.....Ortiz has been great all year but hes 1 demsional...So for someone to say they wouldnt trade ortiz for Arod really doesnt understand or know baseball....Ortiz is being compared to Arod?????? are you kidding????

[savage1]

Ortiz adds a lot of character and intangibles to the team, and I would bet you a tidy amount that Theo Epstein positively would NOT trade Ortiz for ARod today no matter what happens in the WS-no way, no how, and who wants to pick up that absurd salary anyways?
ps ARod might want to hire a magician over the winter to teach him how to successfully pull off that stunt he tried and failed with the other night.:D

[jordanrules23]

Savage...are you sure your anti Alex cuz he didnt get to Boston???? All you get out of that series was him doing that at 1st base????...If he was on Boston and he did that people would say..." he did what it took to win on the play".....

[savage1]

Jordanrules-if you go back and read my posts here last winter and at the redsox.com forum , you will see I was vehemently against trading Nomar to get ARod.
If Nomar was at 100%, wanted to play in Boston, and I thought he would be at 100% for the rest of his career, I still would NOT trade him for ARod.
Again besides skills on the field Nomar up until this year added a lot of intangibles to the team, and I don't think ARod would do that for the SOX, for some other team maybe.
I view ARod as a great individial player but I still wouldn't want him for the Sox unless you could get him for reasonable price, certainly not for Manny or Ortiz.
You are also incorrect about the other night-cheating is cheating whether player is on your team or not, and I don't condone it any more than I do when Pedro goes headhunting.

[savage1]

ps With ARod and no Manny(part of original deal) and Ordonez instead I can almost guarantee Sox wouldn't be where they are currently.

[wayne1218]

I will say this.................... I would take Pujols or Beltran in a HEARTBEAT before Arod. :D

[savage1]

Wayne-I agree;, ARod makes the top 5 on talent, and if all the other intangibles are taken into account such as ability to inspire your teammates to play better and rise in the standings, ARod would fall between #5 and #10 in my opinion in overall value, no better than 5th especially when his salary is considered.

[wayne1218]

Originally posted by savage1
Wayne-I agree;, ARod makes the top 5 on talent, and if all the other intangibles are taken into account such as ability to inspire your teammates to play better and rise in the standings, ARod would fall between #5 and #10 in my opinion in overall value, no better than 5th especially when his salary is considered.

Seattle and Texas both had 2 of their best teams in history AFTER arod left. Say whatever you want but that tells me there is something to it. Call it salary, call it leadership, but call it a fact! :D

[savage1]

Wayne-Great point. you stated what I was inferring, and that alone is enough reason to keep him out of Boston.
Historically over the years he has never hit that well in Fenway.
Now if Yanks want to take Jeremy Giambi from us(is he still around?) for ARod straight up, I might consider the deal.
I will even through in Bugn Hole Kim to get Alex FRAUDriguez.l

[HUNGlikeabear]

Originally posted by wayne1218
Seattle and Texas both had 2 of their best teams in history AFTER arod left. Say whatever you want but that tells me there is something to it. Call it salary, call it leadership, but call it a fact! :D

I have no intentions of trying to defend A rod here. Only to identify what I feel are misleading statements. Wayne, you have to take off your Boston goggles. You can't lay all that on him. Texas had no pitching and a bunch of kids, that have all now come along. Seattle has just quit as a franchise period.

We'll see how well Ortiz plays the field. The ball has a way of finding you out there.

[wayne1218]

Hung, i didn't say that Seattle and Texas had a good year after he left. I said they had one of their top year's in Franchise History. Both of them. Texas has had young kids for years. What. Did everyone of them decide out of the blue that this was the year? Please.

Look at Seattle.They lost Johnson and not much happened. They lost Arod and couldn't be beat in the regular season. They built a team with his salary the next year. Sometimes when the media and fans forget there is more than one player on the team the rest of the team feels forgotten. Is that his fault? No. But facts are facts and your love for his numbers are really all you have to argue with. Bonds has made more enemies than team partnerships because he has everything handed to him while the other players watch. S.F. will never be able to build enough around him either because of his salary.

I think Arod is in a place that fits him perfectly because it's the only team that can pay him AND build around him at the same time. He is a GREAT player and will get one or many more Rings with N.Y. but that would not be possible with another team.

I loved Arod as a player with Seattle and Texas but this year i truly think he has changed his focus. He seems to be more into being a NY Yankee tough guy rather than the mild mannered, well dressed, soft spoken man i saw in interviews while on other teams. I'm not just talking about the play the other night at first either. He has tried to be the "Emotional" leader several times this year and it isn't his makeup. Derek Jeter is the "Heart & Soul" of that Yankee team and if i were a fan he would without a doubt be my favorite player. :D

[HUNGlikeabear]

got your drift

[wayne1218]

Hung i also wouldn't consider Ortiz a "Great" player yet either. I don't use that word lightly and i used it with Arod. Yes, Ortiz had a "Great" year but Brady Anderson hit 50 bombs one year. Is he a "Great" player? NO. Ortiz is limited as he is basically not a position player and he would have to put numbers like this year up for a few more before i would consider him "Great"

I'm 34 years old and i've been an avid Boston sports fan for about the last 25 years and My "Greatest" Boston sports athlete in that time frame is without thinking twice, Larry Bird. 2nd on my list would be (believe it or not) Roger Clemens. Two athletes i will forever cherish in my love for Sports. :D