Bonds reportedly used other steroids

[detroitdavid]

Without steriods he would've had 500 homeruns, isn't that HOF worthy? His prime began at the end of those years in Pitt. From 1993-2004 with the Giants were his best year, obviously with the steriods, but still, he would've been better than those years in Pitt.

my question is this, he played 22 years, at 25 hr per year thats 550 hr's. would he have played 22 years without steroids, or would his body have broken down? without the armor on his right arm would he have crowded the plate like he did? if he only played 18 years at 25 hr's per year that would have given him 450, without 3000 hits or a .300 ba would you vote him in?

[Sirporkie]

With all due respect Detroit David, were you a little kid when saw Roger Maris hit that HR? I am incredibly fascinated with how well you are able to cap NBA.

-Nick

[detroitdavid]

With all due respect Detroit David, were you a little kid when saw Roger Maris hit that HR? I am incredibly fascinated with how well you are able to cap NBA.

-Nick

i was 9 years old when i saw that game and remember it vivdly. i sat in the 3rd deck where the press sat, my uncle got me in there. but my point is, roger didn't need steroids to break the babes record.

[harold_bush]

my question is this, he played 22 years, at 25 hr per year thats 550 hr's. would he have played 22 years without steroids, or would his body have broken down? without the armor on his right arm would he have crowded the plate like he did? if he only played 18 years at 25 hr's per year that would have given him 450, without 3000 hits or a .300 ba would you vote him in?

You are just using numbers that fit your argument. Why would you just use the Pittsburgh years? The earliest most people feel Bonds used roids was after the Sosa/McGwire craziness in 1998. Using just the Pittsburgh years is just silly.

Let's take 1998 and before, since that is a more realistic cut off . During this time period he averaged 32 HRs a year, which at your 18 year career figures, would equate to 576 HRs. Through 1998 he also had 445 SBs, making him the only player in MLB history to have 400 HRs and 400 SBs. Through 1998 he had won EIGHT gold gloves. Through 1998 he had won 3 MVPs, 1990, 1992, and 1993. He was an All-Star EIGHT times through the 98 season. He won the Silver Slugger award SEVEN times through 1998.

Again, I H-A-T-E the guy, but I don't let emotions figure into reality. If anyone doesn't agree that the above numbers are HOF worthy, they don't know very much about baseball.

[detroitdavid]

You are just using numbers that fit your argument. Why would you just use the Pittsburgh years? The earliest most people feel Bonds used roids was after the Sosa/McGwire craziness in 1998. Using just the Pittsburgh years is just silly.

Let's take 1998 and before, since that is a more realistic cut off . During this time period he averaged 32 HRs a year, which at your 18 year career figures, would equate to 576 HRs. Through 1998 he also had 445 SBs, making him the only player in MLB history to have 400 HRs and 400 SBs. Through 1998 he had won EIGHT gold gloves. Through 1998 he had won 3 MVPs, 1990, 1992, and 1993. He was an All-Star EIGHT times through the 98 season. He won the Silver Slugger award SEVEN times through 1998

Again, I H-A-T-E the guy, but I don't let emotions figure into reality. If anyone doesn't agree that the above numbers are HOF worthy, they don't know very much about baseball.

thats assuming he started using the steroids in 98. we don't really know when he started. i haven't seen any records of weight in the years you mentioned. but the bottom line is, if he did use steroids then he basically cheated and does not deserve to be in the hof.
any player no matter what sport thats using anything too enhance his abilities is a cheater, PERIOD, and does not fit the criteria of the hall.

[harold_bush]

thats assuming he started using the steroids in 98. we don't really know when he started. i haven't seen any records of weight in the years you mentioned. but the bottom line is, if he did use steroids then he basically cheated and does not deserve to be in the hof.
any player no matter what sport thats using anything too enhance his abilities is a cheater, PERIOD, and does not fit the criteria of the hall.

agreed, but we also don't know 100% that Roger Maris didn't use steroids either....or Mickey Mantle......or Hank Aaron.......or Dave Kingman..... All you can do is look at the numbers. I looked at Bonds HR per at bat numbers:

2007 12.1
2006 14.1
2005 8.4
2004 8.3
2003 8.7
2002 8.8
2001 6.5
2000 9.8
1999 10.4
1998 14.9
1997 13.3
1996 12.5

You tell me where things look different???

[BigWeiner]

agreed, but we also don't know 100% that Roger Maris didn't use steroids either....or Mickey Mantle......or Hank Aaron.......or Dave Kingman..... All you can do is look at the numbers. I looked at Bonds HR per at bat numbers:

2007 12.1
2006 14.1
2005 8.4
2004 8.3
2003 8.7
2002 8.8
2001 6.5
2000 9.8
1999 10.4
1998 14.9
1997 13.3
1996 12.5

You tell me where things look different???

Every player in baseball has a prime of their career. We all know he took steriods, but what are you gonna do, let no one in the HOF that played from 1990-2000? What are you gonna guess who was juicing and who wasn't? And who gives a shit about the HOF anyway? It's a joke, the people that vote these guys in, probably don't even watch baseball. Bonds is one of the best players of all time, even though he cheated the game, he'll always be known by that. I saw him hit 73 homeruns, cheating the game, and it was amazing, and I'll never see that again, nor well anybody else, so just appreciate it for it is, and move on, the game will still be good, it's not ruined ok. The only reason it's ruined, is because 80% of the teams stand practically zero chance of making the playoffs every year, because there's no salary cap. I'm still gonna watch it, because I love baseball, even when guys cheat.

[harold_bush]

Every player in baseball has a prime of their career. We all know he took steriods, but what are you gonna do, let no one in the HOF that played from 1990-2000? What are you gonna guess who was juicing and who wasn't? And who gives a shit about the HOF anyway? It's a joke, the people that vote these guys in, probably don't even watch baseball. Bonds is one of the best players of all time, even though he cheated the game, he'll always be known by that. I saw him hit 73 homeruns, cheating the game, and it was amazing, and I'll never see that again, nor well anybody else, so just appreciate it for it is, and move on, the game will still be good, it's not ruined ok. The only reason it's ruined, is because 80% of the teams stand practically zero chance of making the playoffs every year, because there's no salary cap. I'm still gonna watch it, because I love baseball, even when guys cheat.

well said. When I read stuff about the Rickey Henderson vote, who should have gotten 100% of the vote, and a couple idiots came out and said they didn't vote for Henderson b/c "they weren't Ricky guys," I lost all respect for the HOF. If they don't strip douchebags like that of their vote, it's a fraud.

[flarendep1]

well said. When I read stuff about the Rickey Henderson vote, who should have gotten 100% of the vote, and a couple idiots came out and said they didn't vote for Henderson b/c "they weren't Ricky guys," I lost all respect for the HOF. If they don't strip douchebags like that of their vote, it's a fraud.

Agreed! Anyone who voted against Ricky Henderson should be booted out of the right to vote. Pathetic.

[BettorsChat]

Estalella to support case vs. Bonds

Updated: January 30, 2009, 8:50 AM ET
By Mark Fainaru-Wada and T.J. Quinn
ESPN.com

Former major league catcher Bobby Estalella is expected to provide significant testimony to support the government's contention that former San Francisco Giants outfielder Barry Bonds knowingly took steroids, according to a source with knowledge of the evidence.

Two sources have confirmed that Estalella has been subpoenaed to testify in Bonds' perjury trial, scheduled to start March 2 in federal court in San Francisco. Estalella is expected to provide testimony of firsthand knowledge about Bonds' alleged steroid use, ESPN has learned.

Estalella was Bonds' teammate on the Giants during the 2000 and 2001 seasons.

In his leaked testimony during the BALCO investigation, Estalella admitted to a grand jury that he had used the "cream," the "clear" and human growth hormone that were provided to him by Greg Anderson, Bonds' personal trainer.

Estalella also was named in the December 2007 Mitchell report on the use of performance-enhancing drugs in baseball, in connection with an assessment by the Los Angeles Dodgers of his value as a free agent in late October 2003. According to the Mitchell report, Ellen Harrigan, an administrator in the Dodgers' scouting department, recorded an observation by one of the participants in a meeting discussing Estalella that he was a "poster boy for the chemicals."

Prosecutors also plan to call Jason Giambi and his brother, Jeremy, as witnesses at Bonds' trial so they can testify that Anderson gave them performance-enhancing drugs, The New York Times reported on its Web site Thursday night.

The newspaper said prosecutors want to use testimony from the Giambis, teammates in Oakland in 2000 and 2001, to show that Anderson developed doping calendars for them. Then the prosecutors could argue that Anderson made similar calendars for Bonds, the Times said, citing an unidentified person briefed on the government's evidence. The newspaper said the person spoke on condition of anonymity because he didn't want to jeopardize his access to sensitive information.

After seven years with the New York Yankees, Jason Giambi re-signed with the Oakland Athletics this offseason. Jeremy Giambi has been out of the majors since 2003.

Bonds testified in front of the BALCO grand jury in 2003 that he used the "cream" and the "clear," but didn't know they were performance-enhancing drugs. The government alleges he lied under oath, leading to the March 2 perjury trial date.

The government also has subpoenaed Anderson to testify at the trial, but Anderson's attorney, Mark Geragos, has told ESPN that Anderson will not appear or testify.

Estalella, one of several of Bonds' former teammates expected to be subpoenaed for the trial, played for six teams during his nine-year major league career from 1996 to 2004.

T.J. Quinn and Mark Fainaru-Wada are reporters for ESPN's Enterprise Unit. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

[BettorsChat]

Report: Retested Bonds sample positive

ESPN.com news services

Judge To Unseal Documents In Bonds' Case
Judge in the Barry Bonds perjury case will unseal some of the evidence gathered by prosecutors in the case against BondsJudge To Unseal Documents In Bonds' Case
A urine sample that Barry Bonds submitted as part of Major League Baseball's anonymous testing program in 2003 has come back positive for PEDs, according to a New York Times report.

Bonds provided samples that did not test positive under that program, but the samples were re-examined by federal authorities after they were seized in a 2004 raid, The Times reported on Tuesday, citing people familiar with the matter.

Citing a person who has reviewed the evidence in the case, The Times reported last week that authorities detected anabolic steroids in urine samples linked to Bonds that they gathered in their investigation. It remains unclear, the newspaper said, whether the '03 urine sample and the samples seized in the feds' raid in '04 are the same.

Bonds testified to a federal grand jury investigating the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative in 2003 that he used "the cream" and "the clear" but did not know they were performance-enhancing drugs. During that testimony, Bonds was asked if he ever took steroids, and he answered no.

The government alleges that Bonds lied under oath. His perjury trial is scheduled to begin March 2 in San Francisco.

Bonds' lawyers filed a motion last month asking Judge Susan Illston, who is presiding over the career home run leader's case, to exclude several pieces of evidence, including those 2003 urine samples.

Illston issued an order Monday saying that, on Wednesday morning, she will unseal some of the evidence gathered by prosecutors in the case. Illston informed defense lawyers she was rejecting their motion to file a series of documents under seal.

Among the documents to be released Wednesday are a transcript of a recorded conversation between Bonds' personal trainer Greg Anderson and Bonds' former business partner Steve Hoskins, as well as positive drug test results that prosecutors say belong to Bonds.

The defense had argued that making the material public now could hinder Bonds' ability to get a fair trial. However, Illston said she received a letter from media representatives on Jan. 30 requesting that the sealing order be lifted, and she ruled Monday that releasing the documents would not impair Bonds' Sixth Amendment right to a fair trial.

Lead prosecutor Matt Parrella declined comment. Bonds' lead attorney Allen Ruby said he would not fight the judge's unsealing order.


Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.


Video:

Report: Retested Barry Bonds sample yields positive - ESPN

[BettorsChat]

Judge unseals evidence in Bonds case

Comment Email Print Associated Press

SAN FRANCISCO -- A federal judge on Wednesday unsealed hundreds of pages of court documents at the heart of the government's criminal case against Barry Bonds, including positive drug tests that prosecutors linked to the home run king.

The documents also include a transcript of a taped conversation between Bonds' personal trainer and personal assistant discussing injecting the slugger, plus a list of current and former major leaguers, including Jason Giambi, who are scheduled to testify for the government at Bonds' upcoming trial.

The former San Francisco Giants slugger is charged with lying to a grand jury when he said he never knowingly used performance-enhancing drugs. His trial is scheduled for next month.

Federal prosecutors allege that Bonds used steroids, including a once-undetectable designer drug.

In the court documents, prosecutors say Bonds tested positive in 2000 and 2001 for the steroids methenelone and nandrolone. Prosecutors want to use those test results to show Bonds lied when he told a grand jury in December 2003 that he never knowingly used steroids.

In addition, a government-retained scientist said he found evidence that Bonds used the designer steroid THG upon retesting a urine sample Bonds supplied as part of baseball's anonymous survey drug testing in 2003.

Major League Baseball contracted Quest Diagnostics and Comprehensive Drug Testing to carry out its anonymous drug testing in 2003. In April 2004, federal agents obtained a search warrant and seized urine samples held by Quest in Nevada and codes to match the samples from CDT in Long Beach, Calif.

When agents discovered a spreadsheet containing a list of all players who tested positive, they obtained a second search warrant and seized all samples. The legality of the second search remains in dispute, with three district court judges ruling for the Major League Baseball Players Association and the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals holding an en-banc hearing in December on the government's appeal.


Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press


Government's evidence against Barry Bonds unsealed - ESPN

[wayne1218]

Shocking .........

[BettorsChat]

Feds again plead to allow test results

Associated Press

SAN FRANCISCO -- Federal prosecutors are again asking a judge to let them show a jury three drug test results they say show Barry Bonds used steroids.

The judge said last week she was inclined to throw out those results unless someone could directly testify to collecting the slugger's urine samples. The likeliest candidate to be able to do so is Bonds' former trainer, Greg Anderson. A lawyer for Anderson has said his client won't testify at Bonds' upcoming trial.

In a court filing Monday, prosecutors included snippets of Bonds' grand jury testimony saying Anderson collected the samples. It also included testimony from a former BALCO executive saying Anderson dropped off urine samples labeled with Bonds' name.

Bonds is charged with lying to a grand jury about alleged steroid use.


Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press