Faders beware

[Ryan C]

******* I have a question ?

what if the guy who bet the $20,000 on COL ST is just a bettor with a hunch who is taking a chance and feels lucky so he decides to bet $20,000 on one game

what if one of the bettors out of the 75 who put $100 on Utah was Lem Banker a noted and well respected Pro sports bettor who pays his bills by beating the house

Who do you think will move the line the $20,000 bettor or the $100 bettor ?

the WHALE who just decides to bet $20,000 on COL ST becuase he feels lucky/ Sportsbook knows he's not a pro bettor

Or Do you think Lem Banker who's been beating the house for over 40 years and has information built into all his bets(not guessing) and he pays his bills by betting sports...he puts a $100 on Utah

They would move the line becuase of LEM Bankers $100 bucks not becuase of some WHALES $20,000

now probably if someone bets $20,000 on a COL ST football game they know something and Im sure it's been many moons since Lem Banker has bet as little as $100 on anything....Im just saying what you said is not all together true

you could be a $200 bettor and have more respect from your bookmaker then a $50,000 bettor and they would use the $200 bettor to move lines and not even care who the $50,000 bettor is playing if they know he's just gambling.

[Art]

I think big bet money is smart money.


Syndicate betting organizations bet big money bets based on the best info/picks.


Rich people who can afford the best info/picks bet big money bets.


Losers bet small money bets because they have lost their money while winners can do the opposite partcularly on a good pick.

Sure a $100 bet can be a winner while a $20,000 bet can be a loser. We are not talking about every case - only about a majority of the cases.

In general, money from large bets is smarter than money from small bets. No one ever said this was true in every instance.

The professional who makes a living from football gambling does not make this living from $100 bets, and his money is smart because he makes a living at it.

No doubt lines can move more based on who is betting than on how much is being bet on either side, and such line moving money is smart in spite of being on the smaller money side, but some books will prefer to balance their books in spite of knowing that their winning customers on on one side - taking the sure 5% rather than risking a big loss. I am not so sure this is so big a factor with most books.

Knowing which side that big-money bets is on is invaluable info, as smart money info, IMO.

But, as I have said before,

I am not as smart as I look!

[wizardofoddz]

Ryan

If Lem Banker or Billy Walters were moving on a game, chances are someone like you would be the one putting it down.
People like that have what is called a beard(people that move money for others) and then it would still be called smart money

[ACTION23]

guys, Im sorry i really didn't read all of the post here, but it seems like were talking about who helps move the lines.

well, if in fact we are talking about this then, i just got a little thing that i noticed when i traveled to Costa Rica in Feburary.

I was visiting a friend who runs a Offshore in costa Rica, while i was there i got a really good look at how wagers are taken here, the book i visited had a betting floor with about 300 people working it, i got sat up on what they call a "STAGE" this is where the guys move the lines according to VEGAS and other well known OFFSHORES, they have a computer screen that has every bet being taken from either the phones or websites constantly scrolling with the following.

1. account number
2. wager type
3. amount
4. person making the bet

beside the person making the bet is a symbol.
I asked my buddy who runs the show there what the symbol meant. he told me that they look and possibly move the line according to these people.

these people are the smart money guys, believe me most offshores know these types of guys. Well believe me to my shock, these guys wern't neseccesarily making the biggest plays.

some smart money guys bets were like $500 to $10,000, but there was also a hell of alot of guys who played much more and they had no bearing on the line moves.

Just trying to help with my experience. hope it was of some help

GOOD LUCK TO ALL!

[Ryan C]

Here's a article i read called You Bet ! Done By Rob Longley

This was written by Rob Longley he went to vegas last year and interviewed Bookmakers Joe Lupo former Stardust Bookmaker
John Avello Bally's Race and sports book director and Chuck Esposito, sports book director at Caesar's Palace

Chicago Joe isn't overly forthcoming with information. Like his real name, whom he works for, where he's from. There is no reason for him to be.

But Joe is a "runner" for a betting syndicate-a HUGE part of the gambling game . Together they are known as the wise guys" or sharp players. it sounds too good to be true, but there are people who make a living from betting football.

Chicago Joe and the people he works for apparently are among them.

Im" not going to lie to you, they're good, Esposito saidof professional sports bettors. They work hard at it. They follow the information like we do on the internet and up to the minute injury reports. So it;s our job to stay on top of it.

Esposito and Lupo both talk about PLAYING FACES", in other words watching where the money comes from and adjusting the lines accordingly.

When a Chicago Joe drops the Stardust limit of $10 GRAND they take notice. When a visitor who spends most of his time at the craps tables drops a similiar amount on a game they say thanks for the action.

If a guy's a big player at the tables and wants to come and bet $100,000 on a game, chances are we are going to accommodate him" said Avello who admitts booking a $500,000 bet on the Patriots for last years's Superbowl .

Lupo said he does not mind raising the limits for these WHALES as big bettors known, but not for the wiseguys. I will raise it for a casino bettor or somebody I believe is betting off the cuff but I have no reason to give a professional gambler more, Lupo said

I see how they live, They're driving a nice car and living in a big house. This is how they pay the bills."

again it's who makes the bet not the amount of money.

In vegas they take bets from $10,000 to half a million and most of the time they don't even take notice.

If a sharp player walked in a made a bet for $500 bucks or $10 Grand they would take notice and think about changing the line
not beaucse of the amount he bet but becuase who he is.

If you were learning how to play blackjack and you wanted to watch the best players play...would you ask to watch the playerwho is simply betting the most money at the tables or would you want to watch and learn from the guy who has a histroy of winning and does it for a living.

i know who i would rather watch and he could be betting 80X less money then the guy betting the most.

Big bets don't mean much other then the guy making the bet is RICH don't confuse that with having any skill at the game.

I play lot's of golf Isee players with sets of $10,000 clubs and they play like crap, I see guys with clubs you could by used for 150 bucks and they go shoot a 68. But if you were to judge the skill by the bagof clubs it's clear who you would think has the most game...but you would also be W R O N G.

[Ryan C]

Action23 that Book is Cascade I read that article in the summer at gamblerstalk hammer posted it.

it was very interseting

Cascade use to be a big time HOUSE for the wiseguys they got hit pretty hard by them.

[ACTION23]

ACTUALLY NO, IT WAS DSI/VEGAS INTERNATIONAL. I know Robbie and Paulie, they have since moved on to APEX. But im sure CASCADE DOES THE SAME, when i was there i went to the HORSESHOE Casino, its actually a real casino where you go in, small ..but they take wagers there, and Cascade runs the joint.

Just some info, hey if your ever in Costa Rica visit the HORSESHOE and accross the street is the DEL-RAY...LMAO, $50 GET YOU A BET, DINNER,AND A JENIFER LOPEZ LOOK-A-LIKE.