Sources: Goodell determines Patriots broke rules

[wayne1218]

You don't think it could have influenced any of those big 3rd down stops that got you in position to kick those fg's

No. Patriots won most of those games on defense. The scrambling Brady did in the pocket and fast trigger that would thread a needle when he needed it was not done or thrown by a video tape. He had to make time to throw, get it in between double coverage half the time, and hope the catch is made. I see no help there from the video tape. Tell me something, how many times during a game do you see players on both sides of the ball staring at polaroid pictures that were taken from the previous series on the field? If you think they are stealing signs, change up. Have 2 people giving them and only tell the QB which one to watch each series. This stuff has been going on for years.

[kbsooner21]

No. Patriots won most of those games on defense. The scrambling Brady did in the pocket and fast trigger that would thread a needle when he needed it was not done or thrown by a video tape. He had to make time to throw, get it in between double coverage half the time, and hope the catch is made. I see no help there from the video tape. Tell me something, how many times during a game do you see players on both sides of the ball staring at polaroid pictures that were taken from the previous series on the field? If you think they are stealing signs, change up. Have 2 people giving them and only tell the QB which one to watch each series. This stuff has been going on for years.

That's what I was implying to was the defensive stops the Pats made.

[wayne1218]

That's what I was implying to was the defensive stops the Pats made.

Does a known route guarantee you in any way which receiver Manning will throw to? On a run playing, if you can't handle the block from the man in front of you, does it matter if you know they are running? I think the Patriots were trying to get a unfair advantage and it was an illegal/cheating plot ... But i still think when it comes down to playing the games, you have to win the battle on the field. Even the prevent defense was built to face the passing game. They know what's coming but 1/2 the time the offensive team goes down and scores. If the game was played on Madden '08 and you knew what the other guy was calling on every play it would help. When you are on the field, it will always be a guessing game either way. How did N.E. even know if the Jets were giving bogus signs or not? There is no way they could have.

[kbsooner21]

I agree with you, but it certainly doesn't hurt.

[TwoTonTony]

This is actually going to be a big topic moving forward. There are other accusations that signals of other teams communications are being jammed. (jack Del Rio accused the Pats of that) and also some D lineman have microphones implanted in their helmets to get offensive line calls (especially helpful if you play the team twice). I know Wayne is poo-pooing this and it is not the end all be all.....and i still believe execution is paramount anyways. However, that being said technology has opened up a whole new can of worms. I believe it gives the team and edge (if it doesn't then why are they doing it....that simple). Chris Mortenson says he estimates 1/2 the league has some type of spy program and the Patriots are leading the charge. They are on file for numerous complaints. Believe me i am not taking anything away from the Pats....but in a league that is designed for parity...any advantage is a big advantage.

I really hope they throw the book at Belechik. I know he is a genius I just think the way he treats people (mangini too) is not good. He treated the browns media like shit and treats the local boston media like shit too. I believe he is kinder to the national media, because they are more powerful.

The problem i see with this is that they were previously warned and thumbed their nose at the league.

[jcindaville]

Cheaters

[molta02]

You are probably right Phil. I'm starting to wonder now if all those FG's to win SB's were made because they were video taping the wind all day and when it came down to the kicks, they had an advantage there too. You might be on to something. Stay tuned ............

ok- well, steriods didn't help barry bonds hand eye coordination, or help his plate discipline, etc. etc. But in the eyes of the public, he's an asshole cheater who should have everything he's ever done taken away.

But when its someone's team who gets caught, how different the scenario becomes.


Honestly, I could care less if Bonds took steriods, just as little I care about the Patriots cheating. I don't think either one was that signifigacnt in the grand scheme of things, I'm just pointing out how different the issues become.

[wayne1218]

What i find the funniest is everyone saying they have probably been doing it for years and that's why they won 3 SB's. This incident and last year in G.B.

Those are the only 2 i have heard about and if there were others, why havn't we heard about them? Supposedly people heard about N.E. doing it, so why did you hear or see nothing about it in any other games when you KNOW opposing teams were looking for it.

People on the outside of these two teams simply can't understand the hatred between the Jets and Patriots upper brass. Mangini and Bill (His mentor) were really close in N.E. and when he left to go to the arch rival Jets, it has become even nastier. It goes back to Parcells going there from here to Bill taking the Jets job then saying he was leaving for N.E. days later, to mangini leaving N.E. for the Jets to the Jets bringing Caldwell in last week to pick his brain about everything he knew about N.E. before the game. Yes, the Jets had Reche Caldwell in last week to "Talk" about N.E.'s offense before the game. You could go on and on about these two teams and the deception they have used on each other going all the way back to Curtis Martin leaving N.E. for N.Y.

The back and forth banter and rule breaking between these 2 teams has cost both of them draft picks over the last several years for things they simply did to each other, and it continues today.

I'm not trying to make excuses because what they did was wrong and they will be penalized for it. I'm just not shocked that another "Underminding" incident has happened "Between these 2 teams" and that's why i said if you know the history, it isn't shocking. If they had been doing this for years and Mangini was on N.E.'s staff, don't you think this would have come out awhile ago in a previous meeting (like last year) and not now?

[wayne1218]

This is actually going to be a big topic moving forward. There are other accusations that signals of other teams communications are being jammed. (jack Del Rio accused the Pats of that) and also some D lineman have microphones implanted in their helmets to get offensive line calls (especially helpful if you play the team twice). I know Wayne is poo-pooing this and it is not the end all be all.....and i still believe execution is paramount anyways. However, that being said technology has opened up a whole new can of worms. I believe it gives the team and edge (if it doesn't then why are they doing it....that simple). Chris Mortenson says he estimates 1/2 the league has some type of spy program and the Patriots are leading the charge. They are on file for numerous complaints. Believe me i am not taking anything away from the Pats....but in a league that is designed for parity...any advantage is a big advantage.

I really hope they throw the book at Belechik. I know he is a genius I just think the way he treats people (mangini too) is not good. He treated the browns media like shit and treats the local boston media like shit too. I believe he is kinder to the national media, because they are more powerful.

The problem i see with this is that they were previously warned and thumbed their nose at the league.

If it is built on accusations, then everyone is guilty. N.E. was stupid and got caught.

[BrezzeEaze]

Who cares when these accusations came out? They are out there now...There are articles now saying there are several complaints over the years that have been logged against the Pats.
I agree that there is absolutely bad blood between the Pats and Jets and that may be part of the issue, but the bottom line is that the Pats were caught cheating.
Now that they have been caught, the NFL will do their due diligence and research and hand out their punishment.
Once you get caught cheating, it only natural for folks to deeper look into the past accusations etc...

[frankb03]

ok- well, steriods didn't help barry bonds hand eye coordination, or help his plate discipline, etc. etc. But in the eyes of the public, he's an asshole cheater who should have everything he's ever done taken away.

No but it made a very good hitter with good power SUPER HUMAN.

[TwoTonTony]

If it is built on accusations, then everyone is guilty. N.E. was stupid and got caught.

I guess this has been on the radar in the NFL for awhile according to Mortenson today. He was non-committal on many of his answers, but he did say the Pats had numerous complaints (led the league).....and that 1 formal complain was the Jack Del Rio claiming the signal jamming of transmitters....and the mike in DL helmets....

I would never say they won because of it....What I am saying is that #1 - It is happening more and more with technology #2 - They got caught #3 - Others interviewed (Pitt coach Tomlin) said it was not surprising and most teams have counter-measures.....(that is why i think it is minimal...but i think any advantage could be large in a close game)....Not the JEts game because the camera was taken early on in the game.... #4 - He also said he has heard from sources that 50% of the league does it in some capacity

[wayne1218]

Who cares when these accusations came out? They are out there now...There are articles now saying there are several complaints over the years that have been logged against the Pats.
I agree that there is absolutely bad blood between the Pats and Jets and that may be part of the issue, but the bottom line is that the Pats were caught cheating.
Now that they have been caught, the NFL will do their due diligence and research and hand out their punishment.
Once you get caught cheating, it only natural for folks to deeper look into the past accusations etc...

Did you just see Sean Salisbury and John Clayton on ESPN? It was almost laughed off as not a big deal. That is coming from 2 unbiased guys so i guess the thinking really does work both ways.

As Salisbury said, nobody watches more tape during the week than NFL players and by Sunday, they already know what you are going to do by how you line up. He also said it was ridiculous to think it affected any games because if it led to any advantage it would be a very, very, very, very, very mild one.

[wayne1218]

I also agree with what has been said. Give the defensive Captain a radio too and no signal will have to be given on the field. It is a simple fix (IMO).

[PhilJr]

What i find the funniest is everyone saying they have probably been doing it for years and that's why they won 3 SB's. This incident and last year in G.B.

Those are the only 2 i have heard about and if there were others, why havn't we heard about them? Supposedly people heard about N.E. doing it, so why did you hear or see nothing about it in any other games when you KNOW opposing teams were looking for it.

People on the outside of these two teams simply can't understand the hatred between the Jets and Patriots upper brass. Mangini and Bill (His mentor) were really close in N.E. and when he left to go to the arch rival Jets, it has become even nastier. It goes back to Parcells going there from here to Bill taking the Jets job then saying he was leaving for N.E. days later, to mangini leaving N.E. for the Jets to the Jets bringing Caldwell in last week to pick his brain about everything he knew about N.E. before the game. Yes, the Jets had Reche Caldwell in last week to "Talk" about N.E.'s offense before the game. You could go on and on about these two teams and the deception they have used on each other going all the way back to Curtis Martin leaving N.E. for N.Y.

The back and forth banter and rule breaking between these 2 teams has cost both of them draft picks over the last several years for things they simply did to each other, and it continues today.

I'm not trying to make excuses because what they did was wrong and they will be penalized for it. I'm just not shocked that another "Underminding" incident has happened "Between these 2 teams" and that's why i said if you know the history, it isn't shocking. If they had been doing this for years and Mangini was on N.E.'s staff, don't you think this would have come out awhile ago in a previous meeting (like last year) and not now?

Those are the only 2 you heard about??? How about Buffalo and Detroit coming forward as well??? You get the news out there don't you??? Your helmet is on too tight, stop talking out of the earhole