Baaaaarry!!!!!

[wayne1218]

Don't even get me staaaarted with that new england crap. what are you from rhode island or new hampshire or something.
1 team for 6 states, I thought N.E had a lot of money.

Huh? WTF are you talking about?

[frankb03]

I don't care about his playoff numbers. I said one at bat, anywhere, anytime. I would take him.

One at bat. Jeter or Ortiz would top my list before Barry.

[rwall]

One at bat. Jeter or Ortiz would top my list before Barry.

I agree TOTALLY here......

Bonds was a great player, but to me his records will ALWAYS be tainted.

but back to the point he's just not a winner.

[MR Pain]

OK had to watch a close soccer finish, been busy counting my money then subtracting a little because of those awful mets. Brasil got it done that is all that matters to me. just wanted to see if I could get wayne out of barry's ass for a second, looks like it worked. Now that I give it a thought I would also take jeter over the cheater.

[Kaptain]

Here's an interesting article you guys may want to discuss and debate over........

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...s/ortiz/060405

[Kaptain]

here's another one

http://retrosheet.org/Research/RuaneT/clutch_art.htm

you guys read thes Stats, and then continue your discussion......Each is entitled to his own opinion........Hope this helps some

[jcindaville]

I love Barrrrrry, he is on my fantasy team. Thanks again Dimer

[TheRook]

I love Barrrrrry, he is on my man crsuh fantasy team. Thanks again Dimer for a lot of jack off material while the wife is out of town.

Damn...and I thought Tmac's man crush on Jeter was bad....

[jcindaville]

Damn...and I thought Tmac's man crush on Jeter was bad....

Dick

[Kaptain]

First of all, one has to better define a "Clutch Hitter".....

Example.......a 200 hitter could come to the Plate 30 times, with 1 out, hit a deep fly ball, runner tags up, and scores 30 times........Sac fly, no AB, but gets a RBI.....This would only show in RBI's with runners in scoring position, and not improve at all his BA with Runners in scoring position......

I exaggerated the no of times, but it's a stat not readily seen....

Now take a 300 hitter, who goes 15-30, and now has a 500 BA with runners in scoring position, his stats reflect an improved BA, 50% less RBI's.......

Now who would you want batting, in the bottom of the 9th, runner on 3rd, with 1 out........

Bases loaded, 2 out, guy walks 15-30, vs hitter who hit 15-30....same RBI's......BA different, same results.....A good eye hitter can be as dangerous as a solid hittter....Same OBP, same RBI's, but a relatively hard to find, "Clutch" stat.......

When you're behind by 2 runs, in the bottom of the 9th, a walk is as good as a Home Run for the lead off man, cause it's the next batter that counts....A lead off walk could be considered clutch, but if the next guy hits a 2 run homer to tie the game, then he's statistly known as the "Clutch" hitter....

Too many variables to "Clutch", without better defining the definition of "Clutch".....One could argue this one forever, as well as many baseball, stats.........

IMO

[frankb03]

Here's an interesting article you guys may want to discuss and debate over........

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...s/ortiz/060405

Below is a quote from the article:

When we analyze play-by-play data, David Ortiz does rate as a clutch hitter overall, but most of the damage was limited to just two seasons, 2000 and 2005. Take those two years away, and his lifetime clutch rating is essentially zero. He didn't rate as a clutch hitter in 2004 -- at least not during the regular season -- or in 2002. It isn't a bad track record, but if clutch hitting really exists, one would expect more consistency out of the "greatest clutch hitter in the history of the Boston Red Sox."

Clutch hitting is the same as a players average. One can't expect the player to 'come thru' in the clutch each and every time. There's hot streaks and there's cold streaks.

Throughout much of his career Bonds has failed in critical at bats.

[ctt8410]

Below is a quote from the article:


Clutch hitting is the same as a players average. One can't expect the player to 'come thru' in the clutch each and every time. There's hot streaks and there's cold streaks.

Throughout much of his career Bonds has failed in critical at bats.

Maybe I missed the point, but doesn't that quote contradict your argument? Then you make a blanket statement about Bonds without any numbers.

[Kaptain]

ctt

Maybe I missed the point, but doesn't that quote contradict your argument? Then you make a blanket statement about Bonds without any numbers.

Maybe Frank made his statement based on these #'s for Bonds, or the LACK of #'s for Bonds........


Best Career Clutch Ratings Since 1972
Player PA Career Per 650 PA


1. Mark Grace 9,290 +13.68 +0.96

2. Toby Harrah 8,337 +13.46 +1.05

3. Jason Kendall 5,958 +12.96 +1.41

4. Kent Hrbek 7,137 +12.83 +1.17

5. Matt Lawton 5,541 +12.10 +1.42

6. Darrell Evans 10,352 +11.81 +0.74

7. Scott Fletcher 5,976 +11.43 +1.24

8. Jeromy Burnitz 6,237 +11.26 +1.17

9. Kirby Puckett 7,831 +11.06 +0.92

10. Harold Baines 11,092 +10.73 +0.63

11. Tony Gwynn 10,232 +9.83 +0.62

12. Dante Bichette 6,855 +9.23 +0.88

13. Bruce Bochte 5,994 +9.11 +0.99

14. Jose Vidro 4,242 +9.09 +1.39

15. Rickey Henderson 13,346 +8.86 +0.43

16. Bobby Higginson 5,660 +8.80 +1.01

17. Orlando Merced 4,530 +8.74 +1.25

18. Jose Cruz Sr. 4,437 +8.73 +1.28

19. Darin Erstad 5,673 +8.58 +0.98

20. Rusty Staub 5,861 +8.48 +0.94

21. Leroy Stanton 2,856 +8.37 +1.91

22. Mike Sweeney 4,733 +8.20 +1.13

23. Randy Winn 4,093 +8.07 +1.28

24. Larry Walker 8,025 +7.93 +0.64

25. Von Hayes 6,052 +7.85 +0.84


see post # 125

[frankb03]

Maybe I missed the point, but doesn't that quote contradict your argument? Then you make a blanket statement about Bonds without any numbers.

My argument is for most of his career Bonds has failed in critical at-bats. While the article points out Ortiz only had 2 good season in the clutch. Like batting it often runs in streaks. Recently, Ortiz hasn't fared well in the clutch. IMO he's proven he's a clutch hitter. I expect he will deliver many more clutch hits and homers.

[wayne1218]

You guys are down right crazy if you would take Big Papi or Jeter over Bonds based on numbers, especially OBP!!!!!!!!


And i love Papi but COME ON GUYS!

Your hatred blurs your opinions.