Senate Rejects Bid to Raise Minimum Wage

[cd329]

Tony,
That sounds pretty fair, but am no expert at what the number should be. Heck for all i know 7 might be to high, i just know that their wages should rise same way other things rise. But i think your 7 is a pretty good fair number. You gotta remember this one fact about giving the low wage workers a little bit more money, these people are not going to stuff this pay raise under their mattress, they are going to put all the money they get back into the economy, which in turn is going to help all the businesses that gave the raises in the first place. This is what people always forgot about. Unlike when you give the super rich tax breaks, because people say that by doing that the rich guy will spend the money and then it will trickle down, thats totally not true. The rich guy takes that tax break and just packs it away, very seldom to they reinvest it.
In fact when bush passed those big tax breaks, warren buffet came out and said why is the government giving him such a huge tax cut and that the money he got wasnt gonna be used for anything other then putting it under his mattress basically.
He was quite ashamed of the tax cut and wished that the cut was directed at the middle and lower income people, who would take that tax cut and put it right back into the economy.

[BackDoorCvr]

Tony,
That sounds pretty fair, but am no expert at what the number should be. Heck for all i know 7 might be to high, i just know that their wages should rise same way other things rise. But i think your 7 is a pretty good fair number. You gotta remember this one fact about giving the low wage workers a little bit more money, these people are not going to stuff this pay raise under their mattress, they are going to put all the money they get back into the economy, which in turn is going to help all the businesses that gave the raises in the first place. This is what people always forgot about. Unlike when you give the super rich tax breaks, because people say that by doing that the rich guy will spend the money and then it will trickle down, thats totally not true. The rich guy takes that tax break and just packs it away, very seldom to they reinvest it.
In fact when bush passed those big tax breaks, warren buffet came out and said why is the government giving him such a huge tax cut and that the money he got wasnt gonna be used for anything other then putting it under his mattress basically.
He was quite ashamed of the tax cut and wished that the cut was directed at the middle and lower income people, who would take that tax cut and put it right back into the economy.

Quite the contrary. Tax revenues have increased year after year as reported most recently by the US Treasury. Federal revenues (including corporate tax receipts) were at an all time record of $46 billion in 2006. All these huge tax breaks don't seem to be harming the Treasury. Buffet is an unabashed Democrat who was on Kerry's advisory panel for the '04 election and a critic of Bush and his policies. Let's say he doesn't physically put wads of cash in his mattress but invests it...maybe stocks, bonds, CD's, whatever. It's this type of investment that helps keep the economy and capital markets rolling. He'll probably earn interest or dividends which he'll have to pay tax on thus increasing tax revenue more. I certainly believe this scenario is better for the economy than him paying more to the Gov't in taxes. In essence, he really is helping the economy and as a result so are these tax cuts so your premise stated above is misguided.

[BettorsChat]

[QUOTE=TwoTonTony]

Like i said before maybe in big business, but many of us use overseas sources to be more profitable.....i am speaking for companies that are small $1 million - $80 million in annual revenue.....I assure you that my reasons and many of my cohorts reason is purely to make $$$, not political....I can not comment on the big lobbyists, which i am sure has alot to do with some of the big deals.....but be real....it still comes down to money....Always has and always will.......It has really become a global economy.....Speaking of products not made here anymore is garments such as t-shirts......used to be made in the carolinas and now honduras, dominican, etc....

China has also become a huge player in the dress/rags business as of December of 04'....that is when the government lifted the limits on those goods to enter our ports......Do you notice how cheap dress shirts have become...I mean you can buy a top of the line fitted Van Huesen for $19.00.....3 years ago they were $35ish

I visited a factory in mexico city (their largest undergarment facility), expecting to see a guy with 1 arm feeding wool into the spools....What i saw amazed me...Armed guards at the door, but an amazing fully automated factory that ran 24/7/365 days a year....All the machinery was from The US and some even from my hometown......The efficiency is hard to beat....Our garment factories were so outdated compared to theirs it was comical......Also they had hundreds of seamstresses doing the finish work (no it was not a sweat shop)...i do not know the wages but it seemed a relaxed atmosphere similar to ours.....We were doing licensing with Disney, but believe it or not, they continuosly fucked up the sizing, since their fabric cuts were so different....In fact it ended up costing us the contract......But it ever since NAFTA this is what is going on.....There is an awful lot of new prosperty in Mexico, but there is tremendous poverty as well.....A larger divide than ever.......

LSU...this is where the infamous Diet Coke ice was chewed!!!

I know that it comes down to money and the big companies want more & more. However, in order to be able to have their products outsourced to overseas companies then shipped back over hear they have to get the Governments approval. Meaning the Government only allows so much outsourcing. And we are probably the biggest outsourcing Country in the world. So the big companies grease the palms of the lobbyist, campaigns etc. to get the votes that they need.

[cd329]

First off backdoor, maybe you didnt read what i wrote.
Warren buffet said the tax cuts would help the economy more if they were given to the lower and middle class people. Putting his money into a cd is not going to help the economy more then giving the tax cuts to people who will actually take that money and circulate it right back into the economy.
This has nothing to do with democrat or republician {which iam } this has to do with pure common sense. I can see you are probably one of those brain washed republicians who believes everything hes told.
In closing, sorry but i tend to believe what the second richiest person in the world would say about how tax cuts and which ones would help the economy more. The guy knows more about money then any person in government could ever begin to learn. Your theroy is so outdated, money doesnt trickle down like the republicians want you to believe, its always stays at the top and always will.
You give a lower and middle class guy, 300 extra bucks and you can be sure that 300 bucks will be spent back into the economy.
So your thoughts are misguided, but hey thats just my opinion verus your opinion.

[BettorsChat]

OK, let's stop the political pandering and start dealing with reality. According to the Employment Policies Institute, the average family affected by the minimum wage has an annual income of $38,000 because seven out of 10 minimum-wage workers live with a working spouse or relatives.

Furthermore, the average income of minimum-wage workers increases by 30% within one year of employment on the basis of learned skills. Which is why any artificial barriers to learning those skills — which is what the minimum wage is — represents a cruel hoax to the working poor. Wage increases due to increased skill levels explain the remarkable fact that only 2.8% of workers over the age of 30 are receiving the minimum wage.

So what are you trying to tell me?

Are you saying since we haven't raised the minimum wage since 97 it still shouldn't be raised? If you're going to provide facts provide a link to document it with.

Minimum wage has always been gauged by inflation and the rate at which inflation has been minimum wage has not kept up with it.

[BettorsChat]

i think some type of raise is in order.....I just do not know how much....any thoughts???? 7ish???

You start out with 50 cents minimum then after another 6-9 months another 50 cents then after another year $1 to get it up too $7.15

[BettorsChat]

Quite the contrary. Tax revenues have increased year after year as reported most recently by the US Treasury. Federal revenues (including corporate tax receipts) were at an all time record of $46 billion in 2006. All these huge tax breaks don't seem to be harming the Treasury. Buffet is an unabashed Democrat who was on Kerry's advisory panel for the '04 election and a critic of Bush and his policies. Let's say he doesn't physically put wads of cash in his mattress but invests it...maybe stocks, bonds, CD's, whatever. It's this type of investment that helps keep the economy and capital markets rolling. He'll probably earn interest or dividends which he'll have to pay tax on thus increasing tax revenue more. I certainly believe this scenario is better for the economy than him paying more to the Gov't in taxes. In essence, he really is helping the economy and as a result so are these tax cuts so your premise stated above is misguided.

You must be a big Bush fan

Why did we have a huge surplus when Bush took over then it just disappeared.

Between Regan, Bush Sr & Bush Jr. they have ran the defecit of this Country up more than anyone else.

The Middle class and lower class are the ones putting the majority of the money into this Economy not the richest 10%

[cd329]

Bettorschat,
some of these guys think the minimum wage should be frozen at 5.15 an hour for the next 50 years, lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.
Maybe these guys should have their checks frozen for the same amount of time.

[cd329]

Bettorschat, very well said. The rich always want you to believe they are making the economy go, when in fact thats not true at all.

[TwoTonTony]

[QUOTE=BettorsChat]

I know that it comes down to money and the big companies want more & more. However, in order to be able to have their products outsourced to overseas companies then shipped back over hear they have to get the Governments approval. Meaning the Government only allows so much outsourcing. And we are probably the biggest outsourcing Country in the world. So the big companies grease the palms of the lobbyist, campaigns etc. to get the votes that they need.

i do not believe that is correct....we have open borders in terms of trade.....We do not have to check with the government as long as it is non-tariffable....certain items are more heavily tariffed......Wal-Mart, Nike and such have no limitations....it is basically free trade and up to them to outsource to the supplier they see fit....

I know special interest groups are at work, but i do not believe it happens like that......In a free capitalistic market we are free to deal with who we please.....That is why we outsource so much these days.....

I am all for buying american, but america must get close to being competitve......

I really do not think politics is the reason we go overseas at all.....If it were American Politicians and their lobbyists would also be in on this.....

[winner]

You must be a big Bush fan

Why did we have a huge surplus when Bush took over then it just disappeared.

Between Regan, Bush Sr & Bush Jr. they have ran the defecit of this Country up more than anyone else.

The Middle class and lower class are the ones putting the majority of the money into this Economy not the richest 10%

How did the US get a surplus? Might it have been something to do with an overinflated stock market, and millions of people paying huge tax bills from their dividends from companies like Pets.com? The "wealth" created by a scandal-filled stock market created a huge source of revenue that led to a surplus. People didn't care of the tax bill they paid as long as their investments kept soaring.

[winner]

[QUOTE=TwoTonTony]

i do not believe that is correct....we have open borders in terms of trade.....We do not have to check with the government as long as it is non-tariffable....certain items are more heavily tariffed......Wal-Mart, Nike and such have no limitations....it is basically free trade and up to them to outsource to the supplier they see fit....

I know special interest groups are at work, but i do not believe it happens like that......In a free capitalistic market we are free to deal with who we please.....That is why we outsource so much these days.....

I am all for buying american, but america must get close to being competitve......

I really do not think politics is the reason we go overseas at all.....If it were American Politicians and their lobbyists would also be in on this.....

Bottom line is $$$$. That's why jobs go overseas and imports are at an all-time high. ANY politican trying to get elected or reelected would LOVE to run on a campaign promise of no outsourced jobs. But they can't make that promise b/c it's up to the business. Do you think if Toyota had the same pension to fund and payroll expenses as GM, they would have one of the top selling cars?

[TwoTonTony]

You must be a big Bush fan

Why did we have a huge surplus when Bush took over then it just disappeared.

Between Regan, Bush Sr & Bush Jr. they have ran the defecit of this Country up more than anyone else.

The Middle class and lower class are the ones putting the majority of the money into this Economy not the richest 10%

I was listening to Bob Brinker on moneytalk and was saying how comical the deficit is in comparison to the asset base in the us.....It is miniscule.....

You may be right about that because the middle class has many more people in it......It does no good to penalize the rich....if we do they will not risk capital to create jobs.....If they do well, we all do well......

I do not think the lower class puts in alot...they are a bigger drag than anything.......If someone is making 20K and are taxed at 28% if that it is like 5K.....

that is not alot of total dollars contributed......

I know wealthy guys who pay huge amounts......Most times there is no getting around it, even after all the deductions....If you are making cake ...you will be paying......

There have been years i have contributed a heck alot of money....

I can tell you one thing....being in business is great....but it is hard as hell and you risk alot of your life to make it.....While all your friends are making their 100K you are grinding it out on the hopes to make it in 5 years or so.....

Hence the risk reward ratio.....

I am assuming many folks here have never been self-employed or employed others byt the tone of things

[BackDoorCvr]

wow am truly amazed how some of you still dont get it about the minimum wage.
Every single thing in society has gone up the last 7 years, gas, food, stamps, cars, cable t.v.,health care, drugs, lawyers etc etc etc. also am sure all posters on this board have seen their paychecks go up.
So to sit here and say the people working the lowest, most undesireable jobs, shouldnt have their pay checks rise the same way everything else in society is mind boggling. Nobodys saying a minimum wage job should be getting paid 25 bucks an hour, but there pay shouldnt be frozen in the past.
I dont know if some of you are just that greedy or you just dont realize prices of everything have gone up. All i keep hearing is how a pay rise to the minimum wage workers would kill business, that is such a bullshit excuse and really its just plain old now. Am sure that almost every small business in America has had to raise their prices of products in the last 7 years because of their own rising expenses. So to say that the people working for all these small businesses cant increase their workers salaries to actually be worth what their salaries were 7 years ago is just hog wash. Seems like alot of you just want the minimum wage to be frozen at 5.15 no matter how many years go by. Its pretty funny.
Just remember this the next time you are looking for a raise from your employer.
Wake up people, we are not a third world country.

It's a noble stance to take that all workers should make more than $5.15 an hour. While it gives one a warm and fuzzy feeling trying to be the defender of the down trodden, study after study has shown that increasing the minimum wage only hurts those who it attempts to help. No serious economist refutes that. As this wage goes up, the small percentage of the jobs in this bracket diminish. That's the truth. Blame small business all you want but this country is founded on capitalism and free markets. In theory, why should the Government make an employer pay someone $5.15/hr when he believes the job only has a value of $4.50/hr. The free market works well and just as it dictates what items cost it also helps dictate what people should be paid (as is the case in every single job other than minimum wage positions and those subject to union pay scales). Ask the European countries (Germany, France, etc...) how they like the minimum wage laws in their country. Double digit unemployment and economic stagflation is rampant over there partially because of them. One last note, simply state that your argument is purely humanitarian (nothing wrong with that) and not based on solid economic theory. If you think this is good policy, then I guess you also probably believe that you are being artifically gouged at the pump by Bush and Big Oil as they try to screw everyone and line their pockets with $3 a gallon gas. Anyone who believes that fails to realize that we now compete in a global economy where the price of a limited resource is dictated solely by supply and demand. If you still do not believe it then watch out for the bogeyman and the shooter on the grassy knoll.

[TwoTonTony]

[QUOTE=winner]

Bottom line is $$$$. That's why jobs go overseas and imports are at an all-time high. ANY politican trying to get elected or reelected would LOVE to run on a campaign promise of no outsourced jobs. But they can't make that promise b/c it's up to the business. Do you think if Toyota had the same pension to fund and payroll expenses as GM, they would have one of the top selling cars?

No....because long term planning in japanese business is 20-30 years in the US it was something like 5......Always robbing peter to pay paul.....unfortunately the bill is now due......They are having a huge buyout of employees 140k for 10 yrs or more....many are taking it....But i think 34 cents of every dollar charged for all vehicles is pension related to non-performing employees....There is no way to compete doing that....The last 2 years with all these special incentives were just moving units, but very unprofitable.....