More Obama lies....televised healthcare debates

[KazDog]

Maybe the shoe fits ...



j/k

Ha Ha Ha! We know which side of this debate you're on!!!!

KAZ

[flarendep1]

I am so tired of this USA has the worst healthcare argument. Why, because it is not socialist (yet).

Why are all the best doctors here in America? Why do foriegners routinely come here for life saving operations they cant get elsewhere?? Go ahead and bring socialism to healthcare and watch how many doctors decide to just say fuck it, I quit.

[10DimeBry]

kaz,

do you realize that anyone who has money in any european country doesnt not wait in lines to get government issued care. Govt run care is horrible. They either fly to america or they pay separately for private insurance for private medical care.

[Spark]

Ha Ha Ha! We know which side of this debate you're on!!!!

KAZ

Truthfully I enjoy reading both sides ... One thing I do not understand is how passionate the libs are .. it is unreal to me ... it is like you are talking about a family member ...

Very narrow minded IMHO ...

[KazDog]

kaz do you even know what you are talking about? i have a good friend who lives in england. He works for Titlist. Do you know what he tells me about universal healthcare? He says its nothing but a bunch of bullshit. Everyone in england has to have the govt issued healthcare. It comes right out of your check. Then if you were to go to a govt Dr. just to get a regular check up it could take 6months or a year. If you need a surgery or an MRI you wait anywhere from 3-6months minimum. In america you wait days. I know cause i had back problems. What he does and many who have money is purchase private insurance and go to a privately run practice so they can get necessary treatment. So before universal healthcare he paid only for his health insurance. Now he is forced to pay for "universal care" then on top of that he pays for his private care. so now he is paying 2x. just to get the coverage he had prior to universal care. So his take home pay is now less then before. Not cheaper one bit. I guess in your eyes though that is fair.

Yes I do know what I'm talking about. I pay an exorbitant rate for insurance as self employed, much higher than probably anywhere in the world. My doctor and now my mom's doctor, who she has been going to for 40 years, is now starting what they call VIP service. It costs $1200 per year on top of my insurance. So obviously, I lost my doctor and my mom had to stop seeing hers. This is what's going to become of our current health care system.

On the other hand. My best friend, who lived here all his life, now lives in England. He is self employed. He pays a higher tax rate for their health care of him and his wife. He says it's leaps and bounds better than the system in this country. His wife has had two babies and there was zero cost to him. His other friend came from the US to see him and got injured while there, and he was able to see a doctor for free with no waiting.

The rankings of the best health care system in the world has Italy as #1 and France as #2. Both have a hybrid/socialized medicine health care system.

KAZ

[10DimeBry]

I am so tired of this USA has the worst healthcare argument. Why, because it is not socialist (yet).

Why are all the best doctors here in America? Why do foriegners routinely come here for life saving operations they cant get elsewhere?? Go ahead and bring socialism to healthcare and watch how many doctors decide to just say fuck it, I quit.

flare do you realize that this bill will put a cap on what doctors salaries are. Yep it will penalize them if they work and earn too much money. The govt will tax and withhold payment to them if they see too many ppl. how crazy is that? What incentive is their to go become a DR if the payoff is decided by govt?

[KazDog]

Truthfully I enjoy reading both sides ... One thing I do not understand is how passionate the libs are .. it is unreal to me ... it is like you are talking about a family member ...

Very narrow minded IMHO ...

I'm glad you enjoy reading both sides, but to say that the Libs are so much more passionate about this than the Neocons here, is not really seeing who is writing what. It is the Conservatives here who are up in arms and going on and on about not having the health care negotiations aired on Cspan and what a bad job Obama has done. Asking question after question about how he reneged on his promise. Not the other way around. I don't see photo after photo after photo being posted of Bush or any other Conservative on here.

There's no narrow mindedness. Both sides are just as passionate as the other. imo

KAZ

[KazDog]

kaz,

do you realize that anyone who has money in any european country doesnt not wait in lines to get government issued care. Govt run care is horrible. They either fly to america or they pay separately for private insurance for private medical care.

I don't believe that at all....Sorry bro.

KAZ

[flarendep1]

flare do you realize that this bill will put a cap on what doctors salaries are. Yep it will penalize them if they work and earn too much money. The govt will tax and withhold payment to them if they see too many ppl. how crazy is that? What incentive is their to go become a DR if the payoff is decided by govt?

Yeah a government (appointed by the great leader) bureacrat who knows shit about what it takes to be a doc will set the salary for him or her.

[10DimeBry]

On the other hand. My best friend, who lived here all his life, now lives in England. He is self employed. He pays a higher tax rate for their health care of him and his wife. He says it's leaps and bounds better than the system in this country. His wife has had two babies and there was zero cost to him. His other friend came from the US to see him and got injured while there, and he was able to see a doctor for free with no waiting.

The rankings of the best health care system in the world has Italy as #1 and France as #2. Both have a hybrid/socialized medicine health care system.

KAZ

good story. im not gonna say you are lying to try and save face but i find it hard to believe. If what you are saying is true then good for them. When i talk to Neil again i will get further details as to what coverage he would get if he simply went with the govt issued insurance. All I know is what he told me and he says straight out the govt system is shit. No one who has a pot to piss in would ever use it. He has told me that if govt run care gets passed in the US that i should immediately purchase private insurance cause i'll need it if i ever want immediate treatment.

[KazDog]

I was incorrect about the ranking. It's France as #1 and Italy #2. The US is #37....The World Health Organization rankings. According to Geographic.com as of 2000. Almost every country above the US is universal or socialized.

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

[10DimeBry]

Yeah a government (appointed by the great leader) bureacrat who knows shit about what it takes to be a doc will set the salary for him or her.

yep lets break it down though for kaz. the figures are just made up not actual Dr salaries.

lets say a DR does 100 heart surgeries in a year. each costs $5,000 that = $500,000 in salary. Govt will pay 100% of that cost.
here is where it gets fun. Every additional surgery that the Dr does in that year the Govt will ONLY pay 20% or $1000 each. Point is what incentive does a Dr have to do more than 100 surgeries in a year when 80% of the bill will never be paid to the Dr. ????

Govt will say well you make enough $$$$ so this is fair. Who is the govt to decide that?

[flarendep1]

I was incorrect about the ranking. It's France as #1 and Italy #2. The US is #37....The World Health Organization rankings. According to Geographic.com as of 2000. Almost every country above the US is universal or socialized.

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

There are a lot of criteria involved in this ranking that is not relevent.

I mean really, you want open heart surgery in Malta??

No thanks, I will stay with the best docs in the world here.


The reason the USA may have a lower life expectancy than some for example has little to do with our great healthcare system.

Smokers, Fat asses, gun violence, drug abuse. These are personal choices, not the fault of our system of healthcare.

Shit, some of the third world countries probably have higher life expectancies because they eat rice, fish and work hard.


I dont buy that poll at all.

[10DimeBry]

I was incorrect about the ranking. It's France as #1 and Italy #2. The US is #37....The World Health Organization rankings. According to Geographic.com as of 2000. Almost every country above the US is universal or socialized.

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

i triple dog dare ya to go to Costa Rica,morocco,UAE,saudi Arabia,dominica,cypress,or iceland and get a surgery. GL with that. you do know that this list is a crock. Anyone can say or make up any list they want.

I could come up with a list of the richest contries in the world.
ready.......wait for it...........

1. Sudan
2. Ethiopia
3. Niger
4. Somalia
5. Zimbabwe
6. Liberia
7. Dominican Republic
8. Belize
9. Chad
10. Afganistan
11. El Salvador
12. England
13. Russia
14. China
15. Germany
16. Brazil
17. India
18. poland
19. Ireland
20. United States of America

[Jamaicanman]

It's called a comparison fucktard. Oh, but you're too intellectual to understand what a comparison is, right Gbell? My comparison to his honesty about the attack is relevant.

And he backed away the entire process? You're a fucking idiot like I've already said. The whole process was on Cspan, and only these last negotiations aren't. Go pound sand elsewhere. Maybe you can find the health care system you want in some dung heap country.

Let's keep beating that dead horse. I DONT CARE THAT HE BACKED OUT OF THE PROMISE TO AIR THE NEGOTIATIONS ON CSPAN. Get it? He has been more than fair so far on all accounts in his administration and all you've done is find fault. So i don't blame him one bit. He wants it passed soon, and all that's been going on is stalling tactics, and you and I know that's the truth. You and everyone else in this country will find out what the final negotiations turn out to be. Welcome to the United States from 2000-2006!

Were the details of the Louisiana vote that was bought on CSPAN? How about the Ben Nelson/Medicaid bribe? How about the lobbyists visiting the White House cutting deals with big pharma? Were the committe deliberations on CSPAN as promised? How about the reconciling of the 2 bills? It's sad that any US citizen is ok with this sort of "transparency" that was promised. But b/c the big,bad repubs of the past were naughty, it's time for the dems to be naughty too huh? Great comparison there!