just an insight......

[musclemann]

KAZ...First I do apologize to Muscle for calling him a moron. He is right, he didn't call me a moron first...YOU DID! In your post above, you throw around opinion like its fact and I just want to point out these areas so you will at least know when your fairly defending your position and when you're just making stuff up.

First, the comparison between Obama and Carter is CLEARLY appropriate. Carter is THE LAST President to personally proclaim his OWN ideological positions as liberal. Bill Clinton consistently characterized his beliefs as "centrist liberal". So, the comparison to Carter is fair and accurate....comparison of Obama to Cliinton is inherently flawed.

Next, you talked about the economy being in "recession and almost full bown depression when Reagan left office". Dude, do you know the definition of the term "economic recession"? FYI, it's not some nebulous subjective thing...It is the condition in which the total economic output of a society (duh..in this case, the US) declines on a real basis from the prior period. Reagan left office in 1989...the real growth in GDP was 4.15% in 1988 and 4.25% in 1987. I really am curious where you got the idea that we were in recession at the end of RR's term. Did you REALLY believe that, or were you just typing crap to support your rant? Seriously, WHERE DID YOU GET THAT IDEA??? This isn't a rhetorical question...I'd very much like you to tell me where you picked up that information!! By the way, the "theoretical optimum growth rate" for GDP is 3.9%. The optimum is a balanced growth rate to blend real growth with suppression of inflation. This data, if you'd care to look at it, can be found at

www.data360.org/dataset.aspx?Data_Set_Id=580

Last, theres been alot of accusation in this thread lately about racism and the some McCain suporters are racist. I don't need to defend my views about these two candidiates to anyone. If you've read my posts, I 've given you many of the very good reasons I'd never vote for Obama and none of them involve his color. For anyone to make racism accusations against the people who are anti-Obama, without having some evidence of their racism, is infantile and very much typical of the behavior of someone supporting a position for which they can't provide factual justification. If I can't logically debate you, I'll resort to calling you names. That'll show you!!

"IF YOU'RE YOUNG AND NOT LIBERAL, YOU DON'T HAVE A HEART... IF YOU'RE OLD AND NOT CONSERVATIVE, YOU DON'T HAVE A BRAIN"

BUT THEN YOU WOULD VOTE FOR BUSH AGAIN IF YOU COULD BUT NOT SOMEONE WITH DIFFERENT IDEAS TO TURN THIS COUNTRY AROUND.

I LOVE GUYS LIKE YOU. IF BUSH WAS A DEMOCRAT YOU WOULD BE CRYING LIKE THERE WAS NO TOMORROW AND RUNNING TO THE POLLS TO VOTE AGAINST HIM. BUT YOU COME AND DEFEND THE SHITTY JOB HIM AND HIS REPUBLICAN COUNTERPARTS HAVE DONE .

IF A DEMOCRAT HAD BEEN IN OFFICE DURING 9-11 YOU AND 65PERCENT OF THE COUNTRY WOULDVE SAID HOW WEAK DEMS ARE AND ELECTED A REPUBLICAN NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!!!!

AND THEN A DEMOCRAT IN OFFICE DURING THE TANKING DOLLAR AND EXPLODING PRICES......


THATS HOW I KNOW ITS A RACE AND PARTY AFFILIATION
KEEP TELLING YOURSELF YOUR AND OPEN MINDEN INDIVIDUAL.

AS MUCH AS I DONT LIKE GUYS JORDAN RULES AND FLARE AT LEAST I KNOW WHAT THEIR ABOUT AND THEY LET EVERYONE KNOW THAT THEY DONT LIKE ANYONE DIFFERENT THAN THEM.

I CAN RESPECT THEM BUT ANYONE WHO THROWS OUT SOME HOGWASH ABOUT CARTER WHEN THE GUY THEY VOTED FOR IS A 1000'S TIMES WORST THAN CARTER AND THEN SAY THATS THE REASON THEIR NOT VOTING FOR THE DEMOCRAT IS DELUSIONAL.


GOOD LUCK TO YOU. YOU CAN VOTE FOR WHO YOU LIKE BUT PLEASE KEEP THE B.S EXCUSES TO YOURSELF. BE LIKE JORDAN RULES AND BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF.

[KazDog]

KAZ...First I do apologize to Muscle for calling him a moron. He is right, he didn't call me a moron first...YOU DID! In your post above, you throw around opinion like its fact and I just want to point out these areas so you will at least know when your fairly defending your position and when you're just making stuff up.

First, the comparison between Obama and Carter is CLEARLY appropriate. Carter is THE LAST President to personally proclaim his OWN ideological positions as liberal. Bill Clinton consistently characterized his beliefs as "centrist liberal". So, the comparison to Carter is fair and accurate....comparison of Obama to Cliinton is inherently flawed.

Next, you talked about the economy being in "recession and almost full bown depression when Reagan left office". Dude, do you know the definition of the term "economic recession"? FYI, it's not some nebulous subjective thing...It is the condition in which the total economic output of a society (duh..in this case, the US) declines on a real basis from the prior period. Reagan left office in 1989...the real growth in GDP was 4.15% in 1988 and 4.25% in 1987. I really am curious where you got the idea that we were in recession at the end of RR's term. Did you REALLY believe that, or were you just typing crap to support your rant? Seriously, WHERE DID YOU GET THAT IDEA??? This isn't a rhetorical question...I'd very much like you to tell me where you picked up that information!! By the way, the "theoretical optimum growth rate" for GDP is 3.9%. The optimum is a balanced growth rate to blend real growth with suppression of inflation. This data, if you'd care to look at it, can be found at

www.data360.org/dataset.aspx?Data_Set_Id=580

Last, theres been alot of accusation in this thread lately about racism and the some McCain suporters are racist. I don't need to defend my views about these two candidiates to anyone. If you've read my posts, I 've given you many of the very good reasons I'd never vote for Obama and none of them involve his color. For anyone to make racism accusations against the people who are anti-Obama, without having some evidence of their racism, is infantile and very much typical of the behavior of someone supporting a position for which they can't provide factual justification. If I can't logically debate you, I'll resort to calling you names. That'll show you!!

"IF YOU'RE YOUNG AND NOT LIBERAL, YOU DON'T HAVE A HEART... IF YOU'RE OLD AND NOT CONSERVATIVE, YOU DON'T HAVE A BRAIN"

First of all. You must not have an ability to comprehend what you read. Please show me where I called you a 'moron' first. Now I will call you a moron because you obviously have no clue. Gbell?

Post #21 in this thread by MM....First time the word 'moron' was used in this thread.
"No kaz this moron doesnt understand for the majority of bush's idiotic term the REPUBLICANS controlled congress taxed and spent us to where we are now."


Post #22 in this thread by you....The 2nd and third time moron is used in this thread and where you now call me a moron.
"Yes, Kaz, this moron does understand that it was a Republican Congress that put us back in the budget deficit, and frankly, it sucks just as bad regardless of which party did it. Concerning the war, you're proabably too young to know much about Vietnam, but the war in Iraq has some very close parallels. All the liberals are out shouting from the mountain tops that the war is the worst thing that could have happened. It's Bush's war, etc., etc. The fact is moron, that until mid 2005"


As far as debating with you about Reaganomics....You can believe whatever you like. We were in a downward trend by time he left office and it didn't hit hard until Bush took office. Just like the difficulty and damage that this Bush is doing to the country. The new president will inherit a shitty mess.

Reagan doubled the national debt, caused the humongous S&L crisis, and nearly wrecked the financial system. Reagan borrowed heavily both domestically and abroad, raising the national debt from $700 billion to $3 trillion. Reagan himself called that a disappointment. That burden basically handicapped this country in the later years. It's also a fact that taxes were actually raised significantly during the Reagan years. Only people who earned $200,000 or more saw any real tax reductions. Unemployment grew to it's highest level ever, 10.8% and then slowly went down with the majority of jobs coming at the lowest minimum wage level.

These are ALL facts you can easily find. By the time Reagan left office, his policies affected the country and left Bush Sr with a struggling economy.

[musclemann]

First of all. You must not have an ability to comprehend what you read. Please show me where I called you a 'moron' first. Now I will call you a moron because you obviously have no clue. Gbell?

Post #21 in this thread by MM....First time the word 'moron' was used in this thread.
"No kaz this moron doesnt understand for the majority of bush's idiotic term the REPUBLICANS controlled congress taxed and spent us to where we are now."


Post #22 in this thread by you....The 2nd and third time moron is used in this thread and where you now call me a moron.
"Yes, Kaz, this moron does understand that it was a Republican Congress that put us back in the budget deficit, and frankly, it sucks just as bad regardless of which party did it. Concerning the war, you're proabably too young to know much about Vietnam, but the war in Iraq has some very close parallels. All the liberals are out shouting from the mountain tops that the war is the worst thing that could have happened. It's Bush's war, etc., etc. The fact is moron, that until mid 2005"


As far as debating with you about Reaganomics....You can believe whatever you like. We were in a downward trend by time he left office and it didn't hit hard until Bush took office. Just like the difficulty and damage that this Bush is doing to the country. The new president will inherit a shitty mess.

Reagan doubled the national debt, caused the humongous S&L crisis, and nearly wrecked the financial system. Reagan borrowed heavily both domestically and abroad, raising the national debt from $700 billion to $3 trillion. Reagan himself called that a disappointment. That burden basically handicapped this country in the later years. It's also a fact that taxes were actually raised significantly during the Reagan years. Only people who earned $200,000 or more saw any real tax reductions. Unemployment grew to it's highest level ever, 10.8% and then slowly went down with the majority of jobs coming at the lowest minimum wage level.

These are ALL facts you can easily find. By the time Reagan left office, his policies affected the country and left Bush Sr with a struggling economy.

KAZ GOOD CALL ON GBELL= UMREP (WONDER WHAT THAT STANDS FOR)

P.S HE DIDNT CALL YOU MORON I CALLED YOUR REMARKS DEFENDING BUSH AND HIS REPUBLICAN CONGRESS AS MORONIC BTW.