for Monte and Kaz

[BettorsChat]

Kaz,

Do your friends use these tax shelters? From what I've read they have to put their money in Foreign banks etc. How the hell does one know if the bank is any good/Gov't backed etc. I can see why the rich use them to pay less taxes, but I would be a little worried having my money in some foreign bank. Plus how do they take income for their expenses etc, to live the lifestyle they do without paying high tax returns?

[Spark]

KB, Kaz would argue with a door knob.

He would rather argue than fuck a hot chick. He has a bonor right now.

Him and Savage would get along great ...

[jcindaville]

I'm going to make this my last argument in this thread, and hopefully, although I doubt it, you will see my point.....

KB, you stated that the rich have a right to get any tax loophole and shelter they can. I agree. Just as any person can collect unemployment because it is something the government provides.

Now....In one instance, you have one man, say John Doe who abuses the system and collects say, $10k per year in unemployment benefits and sits at home eating chips. Is he getting rich off the 10k? Nope. There is about 5% or less of the population that's in this category.

Now....You have a guy like Bill Gates let's say. He is also one man. He makes billions of dollars per year and gets out of paying billions of dollars in taxes through loopholes and shelters. To the tune of $10,000,000,000. There are roughly 5% of the population that are in this category as well.

So I ask you, who should I be more likely to side with or take a stand against? Seeing how I pay my fair share of taxes every year?????

KAZ

What happened to this being your last argument in this thread

[jcindaville]

Him and Savage would get along great ...

True

Kaz would argue that the sun is hot

[KazDog]

True

Kaz would argue that the sun is hot

Lmao...You mean that the sun is NOT hot.

KAZ

[jcindaville]

Lmao...You mean that the sun is NOT hot.

KAZ

Thats what i meant, educated boy.

Now go drive your gas sucking Cadilac around you tree hugging pole vaulting cat petting fairy

[jcindaville]

Kaz this dude said Democrats suck ass




Dont take that Kaz, let him have it

[KazDog]

Dont take that Kaz, let him have it

I wouldn't touch that doorknob. It looks like it's been cut up by the wire brush hair from your ass ramming....

KAZ

[jcindaville]

I wouldn't touch that doorknob. It looks like it's been cut up by the wire brush hair from your ass ramming....

KAZ

You dont have to touch it to argue with it

[TwoTonTony]

For someone who claims he's not a Republican, you sure are full of right wing ideology.

You couldn't be more wrong about me being jealous of someone who does well. I've have seen both sides of the fence. I've been around the poorest of the poor and wealthiest people around in my line of work. Three of my friends and one of my family members are millionaires. I couldn't be happier for them. I have decent wealth myself. I'm not going to list it, but I'm doing better than average. So your assumption is completely wrong. I like to pull for the underdog because I know where they come from, have walked in their shoes and know most people genuinely need it.

Yes it's true Bill Gates has employed many people. He couldn't do or have what he has without them, could he?

So he needs employees as much as he supplies them with employment. He also pays nowhere near the % of tax that 90% of American's do. I'd estimate that if he had to pay the same percentage as anyone in the middle class, that it would literally be in the billions of dollars. Hence the reason why the flat tax will never pass. The wealthy see to that...

It's simply a matter of liberal ideology and right wing ideology. My feeling is that the more the rich get, the more they want in their pockets. The trickle down philosophy is a flawed one at best. Because it rarely trickles down. Reagan, who everyone loves, had us in a near depression at the end of his term with his trickle down philosophy.

I will tell it to you like I told it to KB.....Is it better that one man gets a billion dollars out of the government by not paying taxes or using the system to get loopholes and shelters. Or that one million men get $10k out of the government by means of welfare which they are entitled to as well and most of the people who are on it, need it? Do you think any of the people who get welfare or need welfare are getting rich off it? Fuck no they're not. They barely make enough to live on. There will always be those who abuse the system. Any system....

I will pull for those people who need welfare every single time.

So, if because I pull for those less fortunate, you want to call me jealous, that's certainly your prerogative but only shows your ignorance in making that assumption.

KAZ

i am a registered republican....but i do not vote on party lines....i vote issues.....

you seem to swallow what the democrats spew to you....


As far as gates or any other entrepreneur you seem to have the carrot stick thing backwards......there will always be employees to execute the ideas of visionaries....they are a dime a dozen....It is the idea men, the concept men, the visionaries and leaders who stir the drink. Do not try to give the perponderence of credit to gates employees.....If it were not them he would hire others.....

Wealth for countries and individuals is not done with labor....it is done with ideas that get executed by labor....

Sure we can say the country was built on the backs of labor.....but it was the idea men who put the ball in motion......labor can always be found.....ideas and innovation can not....

i think a tax break for business does more good for the economy than enabling people on welfare.....Welfare should be a temporary crutch and you/I know it is not for many

If someone is down and out they as americans deserve the help.....if it is medical they deserve SS benefits.....and so on.....

I have seen no proof that the welfare system works the way it was intended....

Also Kaz you can blow as much of your liberal hot air up my ass and i will not change 1 iota, just as my opinions will force you to dig your heels in deeper to resist me..

I am glad you do well my friend...you should be thankful

[BettorsChat]

Someone explain how tax shelters work as I don't get it.

[TwoTonTony]

Someone explain how tax shelters work as I don't get it.

i do not think anyone here is qualified to answer that as there are many different kinds.......real estate......different LLCs, etc.....I have used some of course but nothing to the tune of what is out there for the big players....

[BettorsChat]

i do not think anyone here is qualified to answer that as there are many different kinds.......real estate......different LLCs, etc.....I have used some of course but nothing to the tune of what is out there for the big players....

So an offshore LLC company how do they pay less taxes here in the USA? I mean they get a check from the LLC company don't they pay taxes on that?

[BrezzeEaze]

It has been well documented that Gates is going to give a majority of his wealth before he dies. Gates doesn't make "billions" each year. He gives away millions each year to fund his foundation and Buffet has even jumped on board. He has tons of stock in Microsoft and is worth 50+billion, but by law he can only cash in only a small portion of his holdings in the company each year.

[BrezzeEaze]

Here is the textbook definition of a tax shelter ...........

Some tax shelters are questionable or even illegal:

Offshore companies. By transferring funds to a company in another country, one may claim the transfer as an expense, and thus lowering the taxable income. Difficulties in international tax treaties often make the income not legally taxable.
Financing arrangements. By paying unreasonably high interest rates to a related party, one may severely reduce the income of an investment (or even create a loss), but create a massive capital gain when one withdraws the investment. The tax benefit derives from the fact that capital gains are taxed at a lower rate than the normal investment income such as interest or dividend.
The flaws of these questionable tax shelters are usually that transactions were not reported at fair market value or the interest rate was too high or too low. In general, if the purpose of a transaction is to lower tax liabilities but otherwise have no economic value, and especially when arranged between related parties, such transaction is often viewed as unethical. The agency may re-evaluate the price, and will quickly neutralize any over tax benefits. However, in reality, such cases were rarely won. A soft drink from a vending machine can cost $1.00, but may also be bought in bulk for $0.25. To prove that the price is in fact unreasonable may turn out to be reasonably difficult itself.

Other tax shelters can be legal and legitimate:

Flow-through shares/Limited Partnerships. Certain companies, such as mining or oil drilling often take several years before they can generate positive income, while many of them will go under. This normally deters common investors who demand quick, or at least safe, returns. To encourage the investment, the US government allows the exploration costs of the company to be distributed to shareholders as tax deductions (not to be confused with tax credits). Investors are rewarded by 1) the near instant tax savings 2) the potential massive gains if the company discovers gold or oil. In US terminology, these entities are given the generic title of "limited partnership" and in the past they may have simply been called a "tax shelter", being an archetypical tax shelter. However the IRS limited the popularity of these plans by allowing the losses to only offset passive (investment) income as opposed to earned income.
Retirement plan. In order to reduce burden of the government funded pension systems, governments may allow individuals to invest in their own pension. In the USA these sanctioned programs include Individual Retirement Accounts (IRAs) and 401(k)s. The contributed income will not be taxable today, but will be taxable when the individual retires. The advantage to these plans is that money that would have been taken out as taxes is now compounded in the account until the funds are withdrawn. With the Roth IRA and the newly introduced ([2006]) Roth 401(k), income is taxed before the contributions are made into the account but are not taxed when the funds are withdrawn. This option is preferred by those workers who expect to be in a higher tax bracket during retirement than they currently are.
These tax shelters are usually created by the government to promote a certain desirable behavior, usually a long term investment, to help the economy; in turn, this generates even more tax revenue. Alternatively, the shelters may be a means to promote social behaviors. In Canada, in order to protect the Canadian culture from American influence, tax incentives were given to companies that produced Canadian television programs.

In general, a tax shelter is any organized program in which many individuals, rich or poor, participate to reduce their taxes due. However, a few individuals stretch the limits of legal interpretation of the income tax laws. While these actions may be within the boundary of legally accepted practice in physical form, these actions could be deemed to be conducted in bad faith. Tax shelters were intended to induce good behaviors from the masses, but at the same time caused a handful to act in the opposite manner. Tax shelters have therefore often shared an unsavory association with fraud.

William J. Casey is credited with coining the term 'tax shelter'.