Red Sox acquire Bucs' Adam LaRoche

[wayne1218]

I do agree that it is funny to listen to Red Sox fans cry about howw the Yankees spend, spend, spend...you'd think they have a $50 million payroll!

Three Jack, I think that has a LOT to do with Boston losing many players directly to the Yankees. Not many other teams have bid against NY so their fans do not feel like they lost to the Yankees once again. That is the big difference imo. Clemens says he wants to go home and 3 or 4 years later he is in NY. Damon takes what, an extra year or something and jumps ship to NY? A-Rod was a HUGE Deal that was reported as done to Boston and the rug gets pulled from under our feet and ends up in NY. Tex was pretty much here according to all reports and the Yankees were not that interested. Next report comes out and he signs with the Yanks and he is smiling at his press conference. No other team in baseball has had the financial rug pulled out from under them by NY as Red Sox fans have.

I think that easily explains why we feel that way and for good reason.

[mavskidd02]

"Do you really think so? I think the starters are on par, maybe a very slight ad to the NYY, the bullpen in the Red Sox...although Hughes has been huge."

I think so. I like CC, Burnett, Joba, Pettitte over Beck, Lester, Penny and Buch.

But that's JMO.

[wayne1218]

Boston rarely signs huge FA's to contracts. They offer a lot but they usually get beat out. Most of their players either come from within (Pedroia,Youkilis,Papelbon,Lester,Ellsbury,Buchhol z), or off the scrap heap (Ortiz cheap from Minny), or through trades (Beckett,Varitek,Lowell,Bay). Once they won the bid for Dice-K, Most say they cut a 2 for 1 deal with Boras and signed Drew to get the Dice-K contract done. They do not get many guys simply by "Signing" them as a FA. They usually have to give up a Hanley Ramirez to get someone because they know the Yankees will always come in and screw them on a player just to keep him out of Boston. You work a trade and you keep NY out of the equation.

[mavskidd02]

by the way, I don't know what is funnier, Omar Minaya collecting over the hill hispanics, or Theo collecting white guys that hit .250...

[Three Jack]

Three Jack, I think that has a LOT to do with Boston losing many players directly to the Yankees. Not many other teams have bid against NY so their fans do not feel like they lost to the Yankees once again. That is the big difference imo. Clemens says he wants to go home and 3 or 4 years later he is in NY. Damon takes what, an extra year or something and jumps ship to NY? A-Rod was a HUGE Deal that was reported as done to Boston and the rug gets pulled from under our feet and ends up in NY. Tex was pretty much here according to all reports and the Yankees were not that interested. Next report comes out and he signs with the Yanks and he is smiling at his press conference. No other team in baseball has had the financial rug pulled out from under them by NY as Red Sox fans have.

I think that easily explains why we feel that way and for good reason.

I understand all that, it is a fair point and agree that is part of it. But my point is that the bellyaching I hear makes it sound like the Sox are the paupers of the AL and have a budget similar to the Royals. Luccino calls them the 'Evil Empire' in 2002, before most of what you mention, because of they way they spend...well the Sox are the Yankess to a large part of MLB. And for all the great things Theo has done, I don't think his free agent track record has been very good and he has thrown around a ton of money that hasn't worked out.

And I will never understand why Red Sox fans hated A-Rod so much before the incident with Varitek in 2004.

[Three Jack]

Boston rarely signs huge FA's to contracts. They offer a lot but they usually get beat out. Most of their players either come from within (Pedroia,Youkilis,Papelbon,Lester,Ellsbury,Buchhol z), or off the scrap heap (Ortiz cheap from Minny), or through trades (Beckett,Varitek,Lowell,Bay). Once they won the bid for Dice-K, Most say they cut a 2 for 1 deal with Boras and signed Drew to get the Dice-K contract done. They do not get many guys simply by "Signing" them as a FA. They usually have to give up a Hanley Ramirez to get someone because they know the Yankees will always come in and screw them on a player just to keep him out of Boston. You work a trade and you keep NY out of the equation.

Major Red Sox FA signings off the top of my head in the last 4 years:
Rent-a-wreck
Lugo
Drew
Dice K
Lowell (signed as a FA last year)

Who else did I forget? How would you rate the success of these? And, imo, the 2-1 idea with Boras doesn't hold water...if it was a 2-1, you overpay for one and get the other for a decent price. They outbidded everyone by far for Drew and blew everyone out of the water for Dice K.

[wayne1218]

I understand all that, it is a fair point and agree that is part of it. But my point is that the bellyaching I hear makes it sound like the Sox are the paupers of the AL and have a budget similar to the Royals. Luccino calls them the 'Evil Empire' in 2002, before most of what you mention, because of they way they spend...well the Sox are the Yankess to a large part of MLB. And for all the great things Theo has done, I don't think his free agent track record has been very good and he has thrown around a ton of money that hasn't worked out.

And I will never understand why Red Sox fans hated A-Rod so much before the incident with Varitek in 2004.

Three Jack, I hate to say this but the Red Sox and Royals are a LOT closer in payroll than the Red Sox and Yankees are. I know what you are saying believe me but think about that for a minute. All these people say Boston spends like the Yankees but when it comes down to it, their payroll is closer to the Royals than it is the Yankees.

[wayne1218]

Major Red Sox FA signings off the top of my head in the last 4 years:
Rent-a-wreck
Lugo
Drew
Dice K
Lowell (signed as a FA last year)

Who else did I forget? How would you rate the success of these?

Dice-K is a little different because it was all blind bidding and Lowell isn't what i'm talking about. They keep a lot of guys once they have them and they got Lowell in a trade, not as a FA originally. There is nothing special at all about the other signings.

[wayne1218]

Three Jack, Theo gets the acclaim he does because of Trades and the draft, not FA signings.

[Three Jack]

"Do you really think so? I think the starters are on par, maybe a very slight ad to the NYY, the bullpen in the Red Sox...although Hughes has been huge."

I think so. I like CC, Burnett, Joba, Pettitte over Beck, Lester, Penny and Buch.

But that's JMO.

IMO, Pettitte is living on his rep (he is no longer 'Big Game Andy). Burnett, outside of one yr with Toronto, is a career .500 pitcher or very close to it. Who knows with Joba. I really like CC....

[Three Jack]

Three Jack, Theo gets the acclaim he does because of Trades and the draft, not FA signings.

Agreed wholeheartedly. Outside of Boston, he doesn't get the credit he deserves for building this team. Don't get me wrong...I think Theo is the best in naseball. The other thing that he does very well is evaluate his veteran FA's and doesn't overpay for what they did for the team...I think they are better off without Damon and, obvously, Pedro.

My only point with those FA signings is that if he hadn't blown millions on those guys, they could have had the extra $$$ to pay for Tex and others. Heck, Lowell was signed sealed and delivered to the Phils this past winter until Theo swooped in at the last minute.....they gave him $37.5 million before Tex signed with anyone.

[mavskidd02]

IMO, Pettitte is living on his rep (he is no longer 'Big Game Andy). Burnett, outside of one yr with Toronto, is a career .500 pitcher or very close to it. Who knows with Joba. I really like CC....

Agree to some of that, although Burnett is coming along lately. But with all that said, besides Beckett, what have the Sox pitchers proved over time?

[Three Jack]

Agree to some of that, although Burnett is coming along lately. But with all that said, besides Beckett, what have the Sox pitchers proved over time?

Lester was a key component of the '07 team that won. I'd take the Sox top 2 and give the Yanks 3 & 4...only need 4 in the playoffs. Thats why I think they are even.

[mavskidd02]

Lester was a key component of the '07 team that won. I'd take the Sox top 2 and give the Yanks 3 & 4...only need 4 in the playoffs. Thats why I think they are even.

CC over Beckett for me. But this is all just opinion anyway.

[Three Jack]

CC over Beckett for me. But this is all just opinion anyway.

I could see why....imo, come playoff time, Beckett is a horse and want him with the ball.