C'mon lets wake up for real

[weisspalow]

whats scary is that a lot of these people like Big Al, Wayne Root, etc have millions of dollars. Its pretty obvious at least to me that these people give out their plays to thousands of people to drive the line up in their favor and they bet the opposite side. Think about it, they win huge either way. If they lose their "false" picks they make money on their real wagers. If they lose their real wagers they made money from people purchasing their plays. These guys lose a lot more than they win. And they've been doing this for years. Don't you guys think by now 20 years later they'd improve in their performances and get a better understanding? Oof coourse they would. They are big timers who work the bookies, casinos, and the general public. Anyway you slice it they have a system set up to make money no matter what and a lot of it. I've followed services for a long time. Funny the ones who don't play the scamming game actually do well. I'm sure these guys can do well for their buyers if they wanted to. But, why should they? Why not take their money, drive the lines up and bet the opposite? If anyone thinks that all of these services were on OU is just a coincidence then I say your naive. You're telling me these people with millions of dollars and access to info, etc; and everyone of these guys ignored USC? PLEASE. I'd bet my life ost of these guys put major money on USC and had the public drive the line in their favor. Funny how every service gave out Auburn last night yet the line was going lower. WHY? Cause all the services bet Tech. These guys know much more than we think. This is their INDUSTRY. And yet an average Joe can pick games better than them? PLEASE LOL. These guys know what theyre doing and how to make money. That's why they're so damn rich. Last example, look at Phile Steele. When he was under the radar and not in the works with books, etc; he literally could pick any winning side to any game. He was beyond incredible. The guy was simply awesome. And now I am to believe he just got dumb over night and doesnt understand gambling anymore LOL? PLEASE. As soon as this guy became known with the books and industry, he becomes horrible. How can anyone not think he doesn't help out the books now? Nothing literally can drive a line up by 3-4 points in a few minutes without any injuries. Yet as soon as Phil Steele puts out a GOY the line drives up that it actually skips a few points. It'llgo from 1 straight to 3. And its not a coincidence these line moves happen before we even get to see the plays. So come on people wake up with these services. No one gets worse and worse with more experience and education, yet services get worse and worse as they get more experience LOL. Just stop and think how much of a better gambler you are today versus the very first time you gambled, but yet these services don't improve? They have and they know EXACTLY what they're doing but won't let you be part of it except for the honest ones out there

[Larry29]

And which ones would you consider the "honest" ones???

With many years of experience with both pay and non pay selectors and gambling in general, I don't believe any of this "fixed" games or that the services are in bed with the off-shore book makers. Gamblers for the most part are incapable of thinking for themselfs and are looking for the quick fix. When an outfit like Northcoast puts out a big play, everybody jumps on it and naturally the line moves. Think about how many thousands of people follow these forums and can't get enough money down on these games. Of course the line moves.

I believe many of thes Services are "honest" to a point. They all start out capping the games and using good reasoning. Some have a better feel for it than others. That's when the problem comes up. Now instead of winning thousands of tax free money betting their own games, they get gready and want to become millionaires. They decide to market their abilities and it becomes their "drug" of choice. Once they start trying to "sell" their picks, they loose all mental capacity to pick winners.

One good example of this is Donn "theswami" Wagner. Back in the 80's known as Allegheny Analysis, he really had a feel for picking games and did very well. Now he runs one of the largest gambling advertising services in the country out of State College, Pa. Between 900 number and "inhouse" services, he handles 100's of services charging and getting as much as $150 per game. He hasn't been able to win his own picks in years, but he's a multi-millionaire marketing genius. He's been grooming his son and daughter to take over the business, each offering their own picks and wisdom. He's one of the best.

Now when somebody has a GOY, it should win by 30 points and be over by half time, like the USC game last night. Anything less than that is just luck. I had Oklahoma and turned it off at half time. I still think they were using 15 players on defense. Great team, one of the best I've ever seen at the College level.

[Onthemove]

I believe that too weisspalow I seen that quite a few times during the year, it makes me think if they are associated with the books, it makes it like they are just trying to hype just one side so people can bet the opposite that going to win. There is a few times when they do win when everybody is on the same side. But none of them had USC as a lock although it was a lock from the beginning is a surprise I would say.

I went three 3-0 BCS BOWL GAMES and hit my huge lock V-Tech, it would of been 4-0 if I decided to stick with USC, but started looking at the services which were all on Sooners which back pedal me about placing a bet on USC and had me thinking Sooners. After the V-Tech game when I hit big, I said to myself maybe just take a day off, then trying to get into this HYPE to play the game. I wasn't real sure the night before either. With everyone playing Sooners and especially the big money going to Sooners, I should of played USC. Oh well, games come everyday and there might be a big play tonight or tomorrow. You should never buy into the hype especailly when everone in the world is playing the same team, although the nite before everone seem to be on Auburn, I till stuck to one my three original locks which I liked in the beginning of the bowl season. One thing I cannot wait is the NFL playoffs to start.

One thing to note Wayne Root is a good capper, his college plays did very well during the season, did alright in pro football, his bowl games did suck, but I didn't do well in the beginning of the bowl season either. Maybe this is the first year his bowl games didn't go that well, I don't know his previous records for bowl games.

[savage1]

Weisspalow-Having followed services since their inception in the 70's I agree with a lot of what you say.
In addition, anyone who thinks that sports services which advertise sportsbooks and refer players and DON'T get a kickback if the latter lose(either with their own plays and/or that of the service plays), is living in a fantasy world.
Even if services don't deliberately try to lose, because of the factors you mentioned and the kickbacks, THEY win, and from a business point of view that is all that matters.

[WayneChung]

Defense-don Waggener

Been Using This Guys Plays For Years-hes Always Been The Same With Me Win Or Lose-yes He Has A Big 900 Marketing Scheme-stay Away From It-used Dons Grand Slams In Baseball Playoffs Went 5-0//played Dons Bowl G.o.y. On Boise St +14 Which Won-he Gave It To Me Before The Line Moved-if You Sign Up For A Month Of His Personal Service And He Loses-you Play Free Till He Gets U Even Or U Go Busted-just Saying The Guys Always Been Stand-up To His Loyal Customers-bignutt-i Cant Blame The Guy For The 9oo Network-phil Steele Does The Same Thing With His Community Line-and To The Guy Knocking Phil-he Had Hit Eleven Games Of The Year In A Row Till This Year 0-3.try Hitting Eleven Top Plays In A Row-the Nutt!!