Question About Varitek

[Three Jack]

savage, Three Jack, Did you guys hear Schilling today on the Big Show on WEEI this afternoon? That is all they talked about.

No, I only listen at night and on weekends...what were they talking about? Forget it, just saw the previous post...sorry.

[savage1]

It was Big O, Schilling and Merloni. All Red Sox all day. Schilling gave some GREAT perspective about pitching and catching. Way too much stuff to type. They talked about Wake and Tek and they talked about Beckett and his struggles with Victor the other night too. It was a very interesting and a great show today!

Schilling was hilarious with the callers!

I really would have really loved like to heard what a real student of the game like Schilling said and for him to specfically answer the question posed in this thread.

[mavskidd02]

It also doesn't help to have the easiest pitcher to steal off of, and the easiest catcher to steal off of playing in the same game. They would have every base runner on 3rd base automatically if they let these two play together,

[BettorsChat]

savage, Three Jack, Did you guys hear Schilling today on the Big Show on WEEI this afternoon? That is all they talked about.

Transcript? date may be wrong?

Curt Schilling on the Big Show at WEEI Blogs

[savage1]

It also doesn't help to have the easiest pitcher to steal off of, and the easiest catcher to steal off of playing in the same game. They would have every base runner on 3rd base automatically if they let these two play together,

I think that is a good point also.
I was though just thinking though as to why it is so hard for someone who at least at time considered a one of the best catchers in baseball not to be able master catching a knuckleball if he really practiced and went all out to try to do it.

[mavskidd02]

I think that is a good point also.
I was though just thinking though as to why it is so hard for someone who at least at time considered a one of the best catchers in baseball not to be able master catching a knuckleball if he really practiced and went all out to try to do it.

He's not one of the best catchers. He's sub-par defnsively and way below average as a hitter. He only plays because he is revered by his team.

[BillMill71]

I think that is a good point also.
I was though just thinking though as to why it is so hard for someone who at least at time considered a one of the best catchers in baseball not to be able master catching a knuckleball if he really practiced and went all out to try to do it.

I can barely understand this sentence, seems like you were trying to say "why it is so hard for someone who at one time was considered one of the best catchers..."??

Am I reading that right?

If I am, what time was that? I must of missed that time? I dont think I have ever heard him in the top 5 in baseball at any time in his career?

[savage1]

He's not one of the best catchers. He's sub-par defnsively and way below average as a hitter. He only plays because he is revered by his team.

Hold on-Of course NOW as we all know, everything you say is true.
I was referring ONLY to the years when he WAS considered one of the best catchers in basball, and his inability/unwillingness to learn to catch Wake's knuckler.

[savage1]

I can barely understand this sentence, seems like you were trying to say "why it is so hard for someone who at one time was considered one of the best catchers..."??

Am I reading that right?

If I am, what time was that? I must of missed that time? I dont think I have ever heard him in the top 5 in baseball at any time in his career?

In all due respect I disagree with you.
The man is a three time All Star and has won a Gold Glove as catcher in his career and was the catcher during the Sox in 2004 and 2007 when they won the WS.
Up until his recent swoon the last few years, he was generally regarded as one of the best catchers at least in his ability to call a game and also with consideration to many intangibles.
I would go so far as to say that in at least a few of the years of his career, he was regarded by some to be the BEST catcher in the game or a close second;I am not talking about now.
The topic is supposed to be about Varitek's inability to catch Wake's knuckleball, but since I mentioned that he was a very good catcher also,t relative to the topic at hand and you questioned it, lets go further:
I don't say that Varitek was regarded at some time as the best catcher because I am a Red Sox fan, and I would also venture to say that there are a lot of non-Red Sox fans who have followed Varitek for his entire career who would say the same.
Anyways, here are some stats which you can evaluate yourself:

Jason Varitek Stats, Bio, Photos, Highlights | redsox.com: Team

[BillMill71]

In all due respect I disagree with you.
The man is a three time All Star and has won a Gold Glove as catcher in his career and was the catcher during the Sox in 2004 and 2007 when they won the WS.
Up until his recent swoon the last few years, he was generally regarded as one of the best catchers at least in his ability to call a game and also with consideration to many intangibles.
I would go so far as to say that in at least a few of the years of his career, he was regarded by some to be the BEST catcher in the game or a close second;I am not talking about now.
The topic is supposed to be about Varitek's inability to catch Wake's knuckleball, but since I mentioned that he was a very good catcher also,t relative to the topic at hand and you questioned it, lets go further:
I don't say that Varitek was regarded at some time as the best catcher because I am a Red Sox fan, and I would also venture to say that there are a lot of non-Red Sox fans who have followed Varitek for his entire career who would say the same.
Anyways, here are some stats which you can evaluate yourself:

Jason Varitek Stats, Bio, Photos, Highlights | redsox.com: Team

Jason Varitek = Mike Liberthal

Two names that will not be confused with the best catchers of their time.

[savage1]

Jason Varitek = Mike Liberthal

Two names that will not be confused with the best catchers of their time.

Again we are WAY off topic here;perhaps you should start a seperate thread as to who the best catchers have been during the last 10-15 years.
Even if Varitek is not considered to be among the 5 or so best catchers all around during the era cited, you statted that he was not considered one of the best catchers at any time in his career.
I say he was and especially during 2004 and 2007 an some other years where he helped team get into the playoffs.
He contributed greatly in some of those years especially defensively and with his knowledge of calling games.
As another example look at some re: Varitek and if nothing else, look who was catching during the four no hitters he caught-some of those were not exactly household names when they pitched their no-nos.
To me in at least for a few of the 10-15 years we are talking about imo he easily made the top 5 and was probably considered #1 or at the worst #2 by many when everything is considered.


MLB career
Three time All-Star (2003, 2005 and 2008), one time starter (2005)
2005 Silver Slugger Award winner
2005 Gold Glove winner
2006 Heart and Hustle Award
On May 19, 2008 Varitek caught his fourth no hitter, an MLB record. [4]

[edit] Red Sox milestones and achievements
All Red Sox milestones and achievements courtesy of RedSox.com[24]

Became 26th player to hit 100 home runs for club on April 14, 2005
First Red Sox catcher to ever win Silver Slugger
Third Red Sox catcher to win a Gold Glove (Carlton Fisk and Tony Pena)
First Red Sox at any position to win Gold Glove since Tony Pena in 1991
Was on the 2004 World Series team, the first Red Sox team to win the championship in 86 years
Over 1,000 games caught - most in 106-year Red Sox history - breaking Carlton Fisk's club record of 990 on July 18, 2006 vs. Kansas City
Has caught a Major League record 4 official No-Hitters
Hideo Nomo: April 4, 2001 vs Baltimore Derek Lowe: April 27, 2002 vs Tampa Bay Clay Buchholz: September 1, 2007 vs Baltimore (Clay's No-Hitter was his second Major League start) Jon Lester: May 19, 2008 vs Kansas City


[edit] Notable firsts
In the 2004 World Series, Varitek batted against the St. Louis Cardinals' Jason Marquis, the first time two former Little League World Series participants have faced each other in the Major League Baseball World Series. Varitek had played for Altamonte Springs, Florida in 1984.[25].
In the 2004 World Series, Jason became the second player to appear in the Little League World Series (Altamonte Springs, Florida 1984 runner-up), College World Series (1994 NCAA Div I runner-up Georgia Tech), and Major League Baseball World Series (World Series Champion Boston Red Sox 2004). Ed Vosberg was the first player to complete this triple.
Varitek is the only player to have competed in the Little League World Series, College World Series, MLB World Series, on the Olympic Baseball team, and in the World Baseball Classic.

[BillMill71]

Again we are WAY off topic here;perhaps you should start a seperate thread as to who the best catchers have been during the last 10-15 years.
Even if Varitek is not considered to be among the 5 or so best catchers all around during the era cited, you statted that he was not considered one of the best catchers at any time in his career.
I say he was and especially during 2004 and 2007 an some other years where he helped team get into the playoffs.
He contributed greatly in some of those years especially defensively and with his knowledge of calling games.
As another example look at some re: Varitek and if nothing else, look who was catching during the four no hitters he caught-some of those were not exactly household names when they pitched their no-nos.
To me in at least for a few of the 10-15 years we are talking about imo he easily made the top 5 and was probably considered #1 or at the worst #2 by many when everything is considered.


MLB career
Three time All-Star (2003, 2005 and 2008), one time starter (2005)
2005 Silver Slugger Award winner
2005 Gold Glove winner
2006 Heart and Hustle Award
On May 19, 2008 Varitek caught his fourth no hitter, an MLB record. [4]

[edit] Red Sox milestones and achievements
All Red Sox milestones and achievements courtesy of RedSox.com[24]

Became 26th player to hit 100 home runs for club on April 14, 2005
First Red Sox catcher to ever win Silver Slugger
Third Red Sox catcher to win a Gold Glove (Carlton Fisk and Tony Pena)
First Red Sox at any position to win Gold Glove since Tony Pena in 1991
Was on the 2004 World Series team, the first Red Sox team to win the championship in 86 years
Over 1,000 games caught - most in 106-year Red Sox history - breaking Carlton Fisk's club record of 990 on July 18, 2006 vs. Kansas City
Has caught a Major League record 4 official No-Hitters
Hideo Nomo: April 4, 2001 vs Baltimore Derek Lowe: April 27, 2002 vs Tampa Bay Clay Buchholz: September 1, 2007 vs Baltimore (Clay's No-Hitter was his second Major League start) Jon Lester: May 19, 2008 vs Kansas City


[edit] Notable firsts
In the 2004 World Series, Varitek batted against the St. Louis Cardinals' Jason Marquis, the first time two former Little League World Series participants have faced each other in the Major League Baseball World Series. Varitek had played for Altamonte Springs, Florida in 1984.[25].
In the 2004 World Series, Jason became the second player to appear in the Little League World Series (Altamonte Springs, Florida 1984 runner-up), College World Series (1994 NCAA Div I runner-up Georgia Tech), and Major League Baseball World Series (World Series Champion Boston Red Sox 2004). Ed Vosberg was the first player to complete this triple.
Varitek is the only player to have competed in the Little League World Series, College World Series, MLB World Series, on the Olympic Baseball team, and in the World Baseball Classic.

I adreesed the question of the thread in my first post.

You may start a seperate thread if you like, I was replying to your many assumptions in this thread and stating my opinion.

Once again even during those years Varitek = Mike Liberthal. And of course to be considered on of the best I think you have to be a complete player and Varitek is poor defensively, and I am not aware that he called the games versus the games beign called from the dugout. So that being said, Varitek= Mike Lieberthal

[savage1]

I adreesed the question of the thread in my first post.

You may start a seperate thread if you like, I was replying to your many assumptions in this thread and stating my opinion.

Once again even during those years Varitek = Mike Liberthal. And of course to be considered on of the best I think you have to be a complete player and Varitek is poor defensively, and I am not aware that he called the games versus the games beign called from the dugout. So that being said, Varitek= Mike Lieberthal

Would you say that during 2004 or 2007 and/or for one year and one year or perhaps some other year or years? ONLY Varitek would have been considered one of the topic catchers in baseball?;that was my point.

[mavskidd02]

Above post makes little to no sense. FWIW.

[BillMill71]

Would you say that during 2004 or 2007 and/or for one year and one year or perhaps some other year or years? ONLY Varitek would have been considered one of the topic catchers in baseball?;that was my point.

Applying the following conditions you lay out:

1) During a 4 year period
2) Any one season only
3) AND OFFENSIVELY ONLY

"One of the Top" defined as top 10, then probably.

Better overall during that timeframe PROBABLY includes

Posada, Victor Martinez, and Brian McCann, just because even with questions defensively, their offensive number totally overshadow anyones during that entire timeframe

IRod, defense and baserunning somewhat overshadow my thoughts on the impact to his offensive numbers due to PED's

Mauer his 2006, Russell Martin 2007, R Hernandez 2006, Lieberthal 2003 or 1999, Javy Lopez 2004, McCann 2006, B Molina 2007

Michael Barett Cubs years

Pierzynski, consistancy

I have this same problem though with people when they speak of Don Mattingly though. Yeah, good for three years, lifetime statistics of Moose Skowron