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  • Why Proof/Facts/Evidence Is Not Always True

    All of the chatter about Ortiz's purported use of steroids while a player of the Red Sox, reminds me of an incident which happened to me;it has nothing to do with Ortiz but does show why one has to be careful with evidence, facts and proof before convicting someone.
    I realize it is lengthy and most may not be interested and I understand-anyways I deem it to be important and hopefully at least a few of you will gain something from it.
    Anyways, the story goes back to 1983 when I purchased a small condominium-except for a few townhouses, these are all attached units on one floor(they were converted air force barracks).
    Anyways, these were all newly converted units, meaning there were no previous owners and that I purchased it directly from the folks who built them.
    They had salepeople selling the units for them.
    Well, before I purchased the unit I read over the bylaws of the condominium complex and everything seemed ok except for the fact that it said that pets were not allowed because they could cause damage to someone else's property.
    Well, I had a cat at the time(I have always had one, and the few I have had in my life have always been of the indoor variety).
    To get rid of the cat was out of the question for me;there was no way I would live anywhere if I couldn't keep my cat.
    While I was being shown the condominium I was interested in, I asked the salesman whether it would be ok to have a STRICTLY indoor cat which thus wouldn't cause any damage to anyone's property.
    Well, the salesman person laughed gave me a wink and simply said "Lets just say I didn't hear that." I interpreted that to mean that it was ok but don't tell anyone, and if it doesn't do any damage to anyone else's property, no one cares.
    The cat stayed inside as I promised, and was not an issue until 1987.
    During that year or before apparently some other folks had not obeyed the rules, moved in and had brought some dogs into the Complex and which had gone outside and done damage to other people's property and received complaints.
    At the point the lady who developed the Condominium Complex(a real tyrant) and the Association sent out stern letters to everyone stating that NO pets were permitted under any conditions and that anyone owning a pet would have to get rid of them immediately or be fined monthly(I think it was around $50 a month).
    Anyways, in early October of that year someone must have seen my cat perched in a window and reported me.
    I received a notice informing me of this and to get rid of the cat or face the consequences, meaning I would be fined if I continued to keep the cat.
    I did have the right of appeal to the Association.
    Now keep in mind that besides the ruthless lady who was at the head of the Association (she was very wealthy and loved the feeling of power-you know what they say-after you have all the money you have, power is next), there were a group of flunkies who comprised the latter who just sucked up to her and did anything she wanted them to).
    These appeals were held at the end of the month and usually consisted of trying to fine people for leaving their garage doors open(the garages were detached from the units), not securing trash bags, putting the latter too far out in the middle of the road and other mindless nonsense.
    From what I had heard, the person makeing the appeal ALWAYS lost(like the Washington Generals against the Harlem Globetrotters) and were humiliated and raked under the coals by the lady and the Association.
    Anyways and of course I filed an appeal because I thought I had a solid case considering that one of their salespeople had not answered my question directly about having the cat(To this day I believe it is because the lady told the salesfolks to say/allow anything in order to sell all of the condos), implying it was ok.
    To make sure I had a chance here I brought along a very good friend, who was an attorney-that pissed them off bigtime because they claimed that I should have informed them so that they could be represented also(apparently no one else had had ever brought an attorney to one of these "hearings").
    Anyways the proceedings went on, I presented my side of it, saying that rules didn't apply to me because of what the salesperson had said(actually not said), that I had the cat four years with no one ever complaining and that the cat never went outside.
    My attorney argued that since the cat never was seen outside, it should be considered part of my property,etc.
    He also threatened to "sue their asses off" if I was ever fined.
    Things got pretty heated, and the tyranical lady threatenerd to report my friend to the Licensing Board of Massachusetts.
    Well, my attorney and I stormed out of there at that point.
    It seems that we won as I stayed in the Condo for another six years, kept the cat and NEVER received a fine or more warnings;I guess the bitch and her kiss ass buddies on the Association realized that the case wasn't as strong as they thought and that perhaps I did have some "facts" which they didn't consider.
    The morale of the story is that in all walks of life, not just whether someone used steroids or not, get all of the facts and NOT just the ones you want to hear about.
    Thanks to all who took the trouble to read this;I hope at he very least, it gave you a little food for thought.

  • #2
    First of all, the expression I used should be "raked OVER the coals rather than under.
    Also for those who read this, I forgot to say that between the time of my fine and hearing I talked to a neighbor who had two indoor cats.
    I asked her is he had received any fines re: the cats.
    She stated that she had not because whe she told the Condo Association she had two cats before she moved in, they allowed her to keep them if she "bought" in and paid a couple of grand to keep them as in insurance;obviously money talks.
    If my attorney and I had not stormed out when things got heated and before a verdict was rendered, I was going to confron them with this and ask them why I was not afforded this choice also(not that I would ever had paid it lol).

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    • #3
      Savage, this is a story about a cat....
      "CFB YTD: 5-8-1 -16.2"

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      • #4
        savage, I don't know how anybody could read that. It looks like one huge paragraph and it gives me a headache just looking at it!

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        • #5
          This is about a court hearing in regards to a cat.
          "CFB YTD: 5-8-1 -16.2"

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          • #6
            Originally posted by mavskidd02 View Post
            This is about a court hearing in regards to a cat.
            You read it??? I'll take your word for it!!!
            Three Jack's Record http://www.bettorschat.com/forums/sh...10#post1323910

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            • #7
              without trying to be an asshole, I don't think you had a very good case. The rules were clear, and you and the salesman both knew it was wrong. Him looking that other way or not answering didn't give you permission to have the cat. The saleman was just trying to sell you a place and you both knew he didn't have the authority to bypass the rules. I guess I'm saying two wrongs don't make a right. Really, I'm just pissed that I read that whole thing!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Three Jack View Post
                You read it??? I'll take your word for it!!!
                I read a line, skipped down 6 lines, read a line, skipped down. Every line involved the word lawyer, hearing, court appeal, or cat.....
                "CFB YTD: 5-8-1 -16.2"

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by mavskidd02 View Post
                  I read a line, skipped down 6 lines, read a line, skipped down. Every line involved the word lawyer, hearing, court appeal, or cat.....
                  You'll never get those 5 minutes back....
                  Three Jack's Record http://www.bettorschat.com/forums/sh...10#post1323910

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by harold_bush View Post
                    without trying to be an asshole, I don't think you had a very good case. The rules were clear, and you and the salesman both knew it was wrong. Him looking that other way or not answering didn't give you permission to have the cat. The saleman was just trying to sell you a place and you both knew he didn't have the authority to bypass the rules. I guess I'm saying two wrongs don't make a right. Really, I'm just pissed that I read that whole thing!
                    You are wrong in my opinion and my attorney and I were correct.
                    Judging by the fact the the Association did NOTHING further after we left the appeal, give creedence that they(the Association) felt I had a pretty good case against them if they pursued it.
                    ps I am sorry that a few of you who have taken the time to read it think the issue is solely about a cat;there is a LOT more to it than that-it is an example of the thought processes of some and their idea of justice, facts and what constitutes evidence in a matter.
                    Last edited by savage1; 08-10-2009, 03:21 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by savage1 View Post
                      You are wrong in my opinion and my attorney and I were correct.
                      Judging by the fact the the Association did NOTHING further after we left the appeal, give creedence that they(the Association) felt I had a pretty good case against them if they pursued it.
                      The fact that the Association didn't do anything doesn't mean your position was correct, it just means they didn't want to fool with it. If you would have threatened to shoot and kill everyone on the Association they probably would have left you alone as well, but that wouldn't have meant your position was right. The end doesn't always justify the means.

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                      • #12
                        Ok, i just read it and savage, you are in the wrong. I agree Harold 100%

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by harold_bush View Post
                          The fact that the Association didn't do anything doesn't mean your position was correct, it just means they didn't want to fool with it. If you would have threatened to shoot and kill everyone on the Association they probably would have left you alone as well, but that wouldn't have meant your position was right. The end doesn't always justify the means.
                          If you knew how nasty and hateful this lady was (as I and others who lived there did) and how much she loved trying to control the lives of those who lived there with her fines, rules,etc., you would realize that they would have gone through with their threat and fined people as they regularly did.
                          One they realied I meant business and had a STRONG case against them and an attorney who backed them intio a corner with a convincing case untuil the namecalling and threats started, you would feel differently.
                          This was a clearcut victory for me.
                          How come they waited for four years to make a big deal about the cat when the cat was in the window every day? they knew about it
                          I will tell you why:someone's dog got outside and did some damage and someone complained about it.
                          Therefore they had to notify anyone they knew had a pet and order him/her to get rid of it(meaning me)or face the consequences.
                          Another possibility that should probably be considered is that they sent the letter out to me simply because they had to respond/satisfy someone who ratted on me.
                          Who knows if the hearing had gone on to its conclusions without the nastiness, they might have allowed it especially if I signed an agreement to pay for any damages that my INDOOR cat might do if it got outside.
                          ps You realize of course that there is such a thing as being "grandfathered in and a statue of limitations(don't know how latter is interpreted re: indoors cats lol).

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wayne1218 View Post
                            Ok, i just read it and savage, you are in the wrong. I agree Harold 100%
                            In retrospect Wayne, my attorney and I prevailed and walked away with a SOLID victory ; hopefully it paved the way for others to stand up to these tyrannical jerks and show them that there is such a thing as a legal system to pursue if you are accused of something.

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                            • #15
                              1) It's safe to assume you signed paperwork where this was stipulated

                              2) If you go to a concert and get busted for smoking, do you say i've been to 100 concerts and nobody has ever said a word? No, that would be ignorant. What it means is that you have been getting away with it forever. Go ahead, tell them a security guard looked at you 6 years ago at a concert and turned his head. So what, it is still stipulated on the back of the ticket you purchased and at any time, it can be enforced

                              3) Who cares if she wants/loves power? Seriously, WHO CARES? The bigger thing is you signed a paper (Assumed) and it was written right on it. Just because some guy pretended not to fucken hear it means shit. What does mean shit is that you did see the rule and you still fucken ignored it. Spin it your way savage, no doubt you will but if you signed ANYTHING, you are totally fucken wrong. The fact that she never pursued it wasn't because you were right, it was more likely that she didn't want to fucken deal with you and spend money fighting a fucken cat!
                              Last edited by wayne1218; 08-10-2009, 03:47 PM.

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