Internet Gambling ruling today....by WTO.

[Sportsrmylife]

Associated Press
WTO to Rule on Internet Gambling


A World Trade Organization appeals panel is expected to rule Thursday on whether the United States should drop prohibitions on Americans placing bets in online casinos - a decision that could open the nation to Internet gambling.

If the appeals panel rules against Washington, it could allow U.S. residents to take part in offshore Internet gambling.

Last year, a WTO report confirmed a preliminary ruling in a dispute pitting the United States against the tiny Caribbean nation of Antigua and Barbuda, saying the U.S. ban represented an unfair trade barrier.

The United States contends that Internet gambling should be prohibited because it violates some U.S. state laws. Washington appealed the ruling and said it would "vigorously" contest the ruling before the WTO's seven-member appeals body.

Antigua filed the case before the WTO in 2003, contending that U.S. restrictions on Internet gambling violated trade commitments the United States made as a member of the 148-nation WTO.

"I feel that the law's strongly on our side," Mark Mendel, legal counsel for Antigua in the case, told The Associated Press. "I hope that the appellate body sees it that way too."

U.S. trade officials disagreed, saying that negotiators involved in the Uruguay Round of global trade talks, which created the WTO in 1995, clearly intended to exclude gambling.

Antiguan authorities also argued that restrictions that barred U.S. residents from betting at offshore casinos were harming their country's efforts to diversify its economy. Antigua has been promoting electronic commerce as a way to end the twin-island nation's reliance on tourism, a sector hurt by a series of hurricanes in the late 1990s.

Antiguan officials estimate that online casinos employ some 3,000 of the 67,000 residents of Antigua.

The current legal status of Internet gambling in the United States is in dispute. No U.S. federal law prohibits gambling, which is regulated by state law. But in many states, gambling is banned or permitted with restrictions.

Some site operators have been prosecuted under the 1961 Wire Communications Act, which was written to cover sports betting by telephone.

The U.S. General Accounting Office has estimated there are 1,800 Internet gambling operations. Virtually all of them are based outside of the United States, posing an enforcement problem for U.S. authorities.

[amhlilhaus]

good, stop telling us how to spend our money. we 'can't' gamble, then they promote their fucking lotteries ( with shitty odds) down our throats.

I hope it passes and forces the us to stop this charade of morality.

[Sportsrmylife]

ANTIGUA WINS WTO GAMING RULING
April 7th, 2005 (Antigua) - The World Trade Organization (WTO) appellate body today upheld a ruling in favour of Antigua in the trade dispute with the US regarding cross-border online gambling. This is a landmark victory for Antigua as the first, and smallest, WTO member to defeat the United States, the largest member, in this well-respected international trade court.
“The impartial dispute resolution machinery of the WTO has functioned as we had expected,” says Mark Mendel, lead legal counsel for Antigua’s case. “Justice has been served and potential compliance issues facing various US corporations and the US Department of Justice will now be resolved in a manner favorable to fair and responsible international commerce.” Mr. Mendel noted “the Appellate Body recommended that the WTO cause the US laws to be brought in conformity with the GATS. The ruling also notes that the US laws in effect discriminate against foreign commerce. Unless the US wants to repeal all of its laws that currently permit any form of domestic remote gambling and also adopt laws to affirmatively prohibit it in all forms country-wide, they will have to provide Antigua fair access.”
The WTO ruling is anticipated to pave the way for new financial and media opportunities for Antiguan gaming operators. Previously US companies such as Citibank, Chase Manhattan, Bank of America, Clear Channel Communication, Discovery TV, ***** and MSN were discouraged from conducting financial transactions or broadcasting advertisements involving online gaming products. The WTO determination is expected to end subpoenas or threats of prosecution from the United States Justice Department to US companies who choose to do business with Antigua offshore gaming companies. “This is a country-specific ruling,” says Mendel, “but it may have far-reaching implications.”
In the ruling, the Antiguans argued that it is inappropriate to treat businesses that conduct transactions online as if they are unequal to or somehow less credible than traditional brick-and-mortar operations. Additionally, it was underscored that it is inappropriate for the US government to assume an industry lacks integrity in the absence of objective evidence.
The US now faces compliance issues that will require the United States government to thoughtfully address its approach to on-line gaming rather than simply prohibiting it altogether. Mendel states that this WTO ruling will ultimately result in US companies making accommodations to Antiguan gaming operators.
“At the end of the day,” said Mendel, “we expect that major internet search engines, including Google and *****, financial institutions and credit card service providers will be required to accept advertising from Antiguan internet gaming sites as they do currently with US gaming interests, including hundreds of American casinos and state lotteries.”
For further information please contact: Jools Moore or Joslyn Tinker
+44 (0) 207 395 0500
From the US to the UK: 011 44 207 395 0500

[moondog22]

Justice has been served

[sicairos]

I'm not from the US and I bet over the internet everyday..... so how do you do it ? you see a pick and then you go running to your nearest book?

[savage1]

The only danger it is that the ruling might spawn the birth of a lot more offshores, some of whose intent is merely to get people's money and then head for the hills if you get my drift.

[ImpulseDisorder]

I agree Savage1. However, it will really force the player to do his homework with the books in deciding which offshore places to set up their accounts. Kudos to those books down in Jamacia for not falling to the pressure of the USA.

[savage1]

Impulse Disorder-People who have been around the block won't jump to new and unproven offshores which offer 50% or even more sign up bonuses, but I am afraid some newbies will be enticed by these "unbelieveable" offers and will simply take their chances and send money.
That being said, overall I think it is a good ruling, but don't look for the US Govt. and the states to exactly encourage people to bet in this manner for obvious reasons.

[ImpulseDisorder]

Right On Savage1....it's good to see someone bringing about awareness for those who are not in the know. Personally, I will be interested in seeing how the states react to this as I am currently in a state that has a bill in the senate that will try to make it unlawful for any bets going outside Indiana. They want to protect their precious source of gaming revenue by threatening to lock you up for a min. of one year with a max fine of $10,000 for going outside the states way of gambling.

Indiana currently ranks third in the nation as far as gambling revenue goes. The state has gotten to a point where it depends so much on gaming revenue that the state is now the one who is addicted. Even though the politicians came under fire by voters in not wanting to put some 3,000 "pull tab" machines at the Race Tracks/OTB's to build a new stadium for our beloved Colts....I just have this gut feeling that Indiana will do some sorta gestopo tactic to seek out those who still want to go offshore.

Back a few years ago I had a run-in with the FBI who tried to lay that 1961 wire act on me. Let's just say that I'm going to be cautious about whats going to go down these days. Good luck my friend.....

[savage1]

ImpulseDisorder- Tha was a great line about the state of Indiana itself being addicted to gambling.
In Mass where I live, there are zillions of instant ticket games and of course 1-2 regular lotteries daily;something tells me my state isn't going to exactly embrace legal offshore gambling either to sieve away its revenues.

[Sportsrmylife]

I don't think the state wants to stop gambling, as you both have made good points about states getting their hands greased through lottos but what they don't want is there lotto money going to internet casinos unless there is someway they can get their hand in the cookie jar.

Now it could be the say way with alcohol back in the day, just think about how much money would be made by the states if sports betting was legalized. Now bookies don't have to hide, indian casinos can have sports betting and the states get a piece of a multi billion dollar pie. What I don't want to hear is about how this is going to open up scandals, people with problems gambling and such. This is something that is a problem now with every gas station in the US having lotto tickets, mega drawings and such. Let's just open this up and maybe this could help ease off of state's money problems for schools, roads, and anything else that is hurting.

I would love to be able to travel 45 minutes to the local casino, place my bets for the night, not worry about an offshore taking my money, and know that when (if) I win I have my cash waiting for me. Is it that hard of an idea to spread nationwide? What am I missing here? I would like to hear the opinions of both you guys.

[Sportsrmylife]

Back a few years ago I had a run-in with the FBI who tried to lay that 1961 wire act on me. Let's just say that I'm going to be cautious about whats going to go down these days. Good luck my friend.....

Isn't that only if you are sending information ACROSS state lines? Did you get pitched pretty hard?

[savage1]

Sportsrmylife-You make some great points.
Unfortunately we live in a society which lives by two sets of rules.
In effect it says that sure go ahead and buy all of the lottery tickets you want(daily and instant), play Keno in our bars and restaurants to your heart's delight; in states where there are casinos, the thinking is go there often and lose as much as you can afford to(hopefully a lot but not said by the State) and for sure bet those horses and every race;remember when you lose, WE(the state) get a piece of your losses-thus you are actually doing a good deed.
However, don't you place any bets with those local bookies or with offshores or you and them(the locals anyways) will be busted because betting on sports is illegal(other than in Nevada) and because we (the State) are not getting a piece of the pie.
Thus, other than fact that professional sports would probably make a fuss about compromising the integrity of sports if gambling was legalized, I think it would make perfect sense to legalize sports gambling in all 50 states and even license local bookies like they do with prostitutes in Nevada and make them report every bet and their earnings and pay taxes;then there would be no need for offshores.(I can dream can't I?).

[Sportsrmylife]

of the pie.
Thus, other than fact that professional sports would probably make a fuss about compromising the integrity of sports if gambling was legalized, I think it would make perfect sense to legalize sports gambling in all 50 states and even license local bookies like they do with prostitutes in Nevada and make them report every bet and their earnings and pay taxes;then there would be no need for offshores.(I can dream can't I?).

Well the thing about professional sports and the NCAA is the fact that in the same tone that they say they worry about professional gambling they know that gambling is the reason that CBS has paid billions of dollars for the rights to the tourney. I would be surprised if the NBA, or NFL is really worried about players throwing games since these guys are making loads of money and I don't know if they would. Without parlay cards at the local pub, every newspaper publishing the odds, or even newspapers having contests where people need to pick spread winners for odds prizes like gift certificates or such I don't think that the TV networks would pay huge amounts of money to the nfl. Now throw in fantasy leagues, which are everywhere and can easily be considered gambling and you are talking about billions on billions of dollars being passed around to people. Maybe within 10 years the states are going to look at the sports betting idea to get some money to fill in the social security hole. There just is too much money out there in gambling for the states NOT to consider legalizing it. I'm pretty sure that Nevada would be against it since it will take some of the thunder away from them. Hopefully this is something that can come out in the next 10-15 years, when I start making some REAL money to bet. LOL!!

[ImpulseDisorder]

Sportsmylife-The 1961 wire act thing that the FBI was trying to nail me on was back in 1998. I was calling money down on a Western Union wire. Then I would re-wire it to set up another offshore account. The flag must have went up when I called down about 4 grand over a three week period. It was really dumb of me to do it that way. I moreless did the panic thing because I ran into some resistance when I wanted them to send me 5 grand in a certified check. "I'm not a bank" is what the book told me (which is no longer around) "but I'll send you $700". So I started calling down a few hundered each day. I had never been in any kind of trouble before but one day I went to pick-up some cash and the woman who was running the outlet for Western Union said...."That's strange....they have a hold on your money and there is a 1-800 number for you to call." Not knowing what this was all about I called the number and to my astonishment it was the FBI wanting to talk to me about the fact I was in violation of the 1961 wire act. So yes, your are correct in the across state line thing. I was going out of the country and using a phone line to place bets. I was not using the internet back then.

Now, the Men In Black did lean on me to give names to them. I kept telling them "Why do you want to bother me? I am small potatos compared to what people are playing for. At the time I was playing between $100 to $500 a game. However, they kept asking me if I had any contact with these other people...and they named off a lot of different names. Of course I knew nothing about the names they mentioned and I kept bringing up the fact that the way the 1961 wire act was stated was "knowingly violating the law".

I told them that there were hundereds of ad's in various sports mags for people to send money and set up off shore accounts. They agreed that there were, however, I was still in violation by sending/recieving monies on a wire. But, because I believed there was nothing wrong with it, I was not "knowingly violating the law".

Thus, they told me not to do it anymore and the next time I was caught they (The FBI) would not be so forgiving. I was bummed. I had three accounts set up (for outs) and now I was paranoid about placing bets via the phone. I knew that I could call down funds using a certified check but I was paranoid about even cashing it. I was worried that the IRS would be next in line for me. I was like a James Bond drink..."shaken, but not stirred." Ha!

Personally, I know you can't legislate morality. Lawmakers try to do it, but it just ain't gonna happen. Remember the Brady Bill? What a piece of work that guy is. So let me wrap this little story up by just saying that our government brought my attention to some awarness that I needed to become aware of. I don't do business the way I used to. It's much easier to fly to the offshore book and collect the money in person. Am I paranoid still....somewhat. Did I make a mistake? I don't believe in mistakes, only lessons. So I hope maybe I have shed some light on some things that might clear up some of my statements I talked about in previous posts.

Now let me make something clear about the 1961 wire act and how it applies to us today. The 1961 wire act was written to cover sports betting by telephone. Today the 1961 wire act does not apply to the internet use of sports betting because the internet was not even around when congress passed the wire act of 1961.

There are three principal requirements of the 1961 wire act;

1. The defendant is in the business of wagering or betting.

2. The defendant "knowingly" uses a wire communication facility.

3. The defendant transmit in interstate and foreign commerce (i) bets or wagers or information in assisting bets or wagers on any sporting events or contest, or (ii) for the transmition of a wire or communication which entitles the recipient to recieve money or credit as a result of bets or wagers, or for information assisting in the placing the bets or wagers.

So, my question is then is it legal then to place a bet via the internet in say playing Texas hold-em? Casino gambling is not covered by the 1961 wire act. The bottom line is this...violation of the 1961 wire act requires specific intent. Has anyone checked for a disclaimer at their offshore book stating that U.S. citizens might be in violation of their local laws? This will protect the book, but how will it affect the player when the shit hits the fan?

Up a creek without a paddle is my guess. Look, I know some of you will think this is all trival. It's kinda like everybody is speeding on the highway and they can only pull over one person. If that one person should be me, lets just ask..."did I learn my lesson?" Obviously not. So I have gotten to the point where I recognize things and I tell myself...."I've seen this movie before." So these days I'm cautious. For the record, you should know that I know a lot about these "gambling issues" and how they affect a person. I've been to several seminars put on by The NCPG and spoke on various issues such as this.

I'm glad you and Savage1 take an interest in subjects like this. Bringing awarness to issues make us all sharper, smarter, and hopefully wiser. Ain't that what betters chat is doing? Kudos!