Its now official.... Suspensions out. Artest done for year

[capperjohn1]

Savage,say you get a beer thrown at you at the bar on Friday. The guy runs outside. You are pissed and soaked. You are saying you have the "right" to go out after him in the parking lot and beat the shit out of him b/c you were wronged and dissed in front of your pals? And then if you do, and you put the guy in the hospital, you can get off saying you were disrespected and you had a right to "defend" yourself?
Plus since assault (even with a cup) is a criminal act, along with trespassing, Stern has no right to enforce the law against fans.

[Southern Dandy]

I brought them and the war up to show the miscarriage of justice, the lack of perspective , the rush to judgment and most importantly the sheer hypocrisy which goes on in this country.

Savage like I said earlier if you don't like all the "hypocrisy" that goes on in this country leave. I know a place you could go that's only a short drive from Boston. Canada

Until then, I salute you savage the USA's greatest patriot!

[savage1]

txtech-apology accepted.
Capperjohn-I say suspend Artest for 20 games maybe and all other players proportionally less with warning that next time suspension will be for the season.
Meantime give the offending fans equal punishment in fines and jail sentences.
In your reference to the bar, the police would not deem it important enough to bother to do anything about a beer throwing incident.
Remember though it was YOU who was hit by the beer and not the officer, and thus you would be within your rights to throw one back at him or even punch him for that matter to teach him a lesson.
To use your analogy, if the police found you scuffling with your assailant, the police would then get all the facts in the case from the witnesses, and if it went to court, I am sure both you and the the person who threw the beer at you would get EQUAL punishment-totally unlike the situation here where a player is suspended for one year, and the offending fans probably next to nothing in comparison.

[savage1]

Southern dandy-get off your high horse and take off your blinkers;this is a great country, but PLENTY of mistakes have been made and its even worse when our commander won't admit to any of them.

[BigTicket]

Originally posted by capperjohn1
Two wrongs don't make a right.

NO, but 2 wrights made an airplane!!

[Southern Dandy]

Savage, I agree with you. This is a great country. It seems to me that you're the one that's not enjoying his stay here.

[Southern Dandy]

And by the way, what do you mean by "your commander-in-chief?" Bush is everyone's president. Unless you made that trip to Canada.

[savage1]

Southern Dandy- I love this country as much as anyone but I DON'T believe in blind patriotism.
It sickens me everyday when I hear of all the thousands of Americans and Iraqi soldiers, women and children who are killed or maimed everyday;the only sure thing is that even if one accepts the premise that the war was justified(not me for sure), the administration should own up to the fact that they BADLY miscalculated how many people would die and how much it would cost in dollars and how long we would be there.
ps then "our" commander in chief;its immaterial.

[Southern Dandy]

Savage I don't know if you can recall this or not, but when the war started the United States estimated that there would be around 5,000 deaths. If I remember correctly I think the number right now is around 1,200. Correct me if I'm wrong here. You should also be proud of the soldiers in Iraq who are fighting and dieing to protect the freedoms that we hold so dear.

[capperjohn1]

Savage,
While I respect your opinion, can you at least agree that throwing a beer at someone or punching them is illegal? So if you say yes to that, how can you say that you have a "right" to do something illegal to someone else who has wronged you? And just b/c the cops (justice system) don't deem it important enough is not a reason to take the law into your own hands. Street justice, while understood emotionally, is illegal.

And I think you guys need another thread for the war/anti-war comments!!!!

[savage1]

Let me sum up my feelings by saying what a local talk show host said:the thing was blown way out of proportion to its worth in terms of coverage and in penalities.
Violence, fights, incidents in the stands, yada, yada, yada has gone on for a long time in sports.
The tv networks having nothing better to cover made it the lead story.
I still shake my head in disbelief when I think about one year suspensions, millions of dollars lost in salary, ruining a team's season because of the length of some of the suspensions, inequitable treatment of the fans and all over what?- A few players and fans lost their cool;big fu-king deal.
In a few weeks it will all be forgotten and is unlike MANY MORE SERIOUS things which happen in the world on a daily basis. jmho
ps Not to bring up politics again but this sort of reminds me of the nonsense/fuss made over Monica Lewinski, Clinton affair.

[capperjohn1]

The reality is that different people are held to different standards:bottom line. Always was, always will. So with the Clinton comparison, is infidelity an everyday event? Yep...Is lying (even under oath) everyday? Yep But his standard as President is that he is held to a higher level. If it happened to you or me or Joe Blow on the corner, no one would bat an eye. So I agree with the overexposure.
But I am not a fan of hypocrisy. So if something is wrong for one person, it should be wrong for both. And that's why I counter with the bar/beer example.

[savage1]

By inference then, if you assume the punishment for Artest and the other Pacer players is appropriate correct, then can I assumethat you believe that the offensive fans Ishould be brought to trial, and receive a large punishment relative to their own life whether it be in fines, jail sentence or a combination of both?

[capperjohn1]

They should be identified on tape, charged, and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Then if they are season ticket holders, those should be revoked. Which by the way is not a legal issue. And civil cases should be brought against ALL the players involved if they caused any harm. Fines/jail sentences are for the court to decide and they are bound by statutory limits. If a fine for trespassing is $500, you can't charge them 1 million dollars. The NBA has the right to police it's own players in the collective bargaining agreement. So in essence, that is their law criminally.

[capperjohn1]

My biggest disagreement with you Savage is just that you think someone has a "right" to retaliate, when they don't. They have a right to defend, which is different. If someone cuts you off in traffic and you're pissed, does that give you the "right" to go and cut him off? NO...Most people probably would though and it serves NO purpose other then to try and calm yourself down and even the scales, because you were wronged. And the society that you complain of is a result of these retaliation mindset. People who do wrong should be punished for them doing wrong. But by the proper authorities. And if you think a law is too lenient, go through the hoops and get it changed.

Remember the People's Court: "Don't take the law into your own hands, you take them to court!!!"