Its now official.... Suspensions out. Artest done for year

[capperjohn1]

Savage

I am confused by your analogy about the neighbors fighting. If the neighbor pushes the other and retreats, what physical harm is the pushed neighbor in? You state that he should be allowed to "push back". How would that finish? The pushed neighbor can go over and push back, then it's over? Have to even it out?

[savage1]

The point about the neighbor in the analogy is that the pushed neighbor would not worry about stepping on his neighbor's lawn and would have every right to push him back.
Thus, in NBA incident, just because the fans are in the stands, which could be considered asthe fan's "property" that in itself should not preclude player from retaliating against the fan who provoked him.

[savage1]

txtech-players and fans are both people first, and people have a right to respond to other people when they are provoked.

[txtech33]

savage

The only problem here is that it had to do with FANS!!!! Fans pay the NBA's paychecks. That is the whole point that you are missing I think........O yea and About your little link about the southern states

[capperjohn1]

Your neighbor smashes your car window. You now say you have the "right" to smash his?

[seriousfan67]

fight

savage,

i understand your opinion and your analogy with the neighbor but i think you are missing a big part of the point, they were at work. if you are at work and one of your customers starts yelling at you, and even throws something (albiet not a life threatening object) you are expected to keep your cool, the situation will be dealt with. if you go off and do as you please (beat their ass) there is an excellent chance you would be fired on the spot, whether you started it or not....

[savage1]

Maybe if fans realize that players WILL respond when provoked. perhaps they will not throw something at the player next time or at least think about it, knowing that the "security" of the stands is not so secure after all.

[capperjohn1]

Two wrongs don't make a right. How do you know what would have happened if Artest just let security do their job? You certainly can say security needs to be increased, and fan accountability for their actions should be monitored. We have a system that doesn't allow for justice to be self-administered. And you just want everyone to be even-steven...

[savage1]

TTech-get your facts straight, bozo.; it was not I who made the southern reference-not surprising- a rush to judgment just like you and Stern made in this case.

[savage1]

If someone smashed your window and there was no way to prove it, you would be in your rights to retaliate in kind.
In any case a window is an object and not the same as having something thrown at YOU, a person;there is a difference!!! Human emotion is stronger in the second instance.

[savage1]

Capperjohn-two wrongs don't make a right-you are correct.
Using your own statement then, where are the two "rights" here and equality of justice when it comes to the fans and Wallace
If the stiff punishment to Artest and other Pacer players is "right" then where where is the "right" equality of justice re: Wallace and the equally guilty fans?

[capperjohn1]

aslo savage

Just b/c Sprewell got off lightly doesn't mean that everything after that has to be in proportion. These are 2 of the most unprecedented acts in the history of sports. Do you think there is a rule book with fines/penalties with these acts in them. It would be different if there was inconsistency on flagrant foul penalties, but there really isn't a history to draw upon to penalize these acts. Spree should have gotten more, and Jackson should have gotten more this time.

[savage1]

I brought them and the war up to show the miscarriage of justice, the lack of perspective , the rush to judgment and most importantly the sheer hypocrisy which goes on in this country.

[txtech33]

savage

I apologize for that I just was reading fast and saw that it started with s-------.

[capperjohn1]

How in the world can you say you would have the "right" to smash someone's window to even it out? And I didn't see Wallace in the stands attacking fans. And that is the reason for the large suspensions. And you can even question what was the first domino in this. Wallace's push on Artest or the foul on Wallace from Artest. If Artest does nothing when hit with water, (OOOHHHH PAINFUL and THREATENING), wallace gets hit with fine/suspension and that's it.