Sometimes you have to wonder if services dont do this.. The big game scam...

[maverick2112]

Did Phil leak the play early to the sportsbooks?

I know a line can move fast but 3 whole points in 5 minutes is rather ludicrous. He releases the 5* to his clients at 10 am sharp central time and I look at my account at 10:02 and it's Oregon -9.5. Had Oregon won by 7 it would be all over this week's Power Sweep that he won his 5* at Oregon -6.5 when there is no way any client could have played it at that on a sportsbook right thereafter. He needs to quit sitting on the big plays until that time or quit advertising his release times.

I didn't play it any way.

His September 5* was Iowa State -3.5 over Northern Illinois. I was in my sportsbook at 10 sharp and 30 seconds and it was Iowa State -6. I played it but that was pure luck as NI blew a huge lead and lost by 7 in OT.

Phil needs to shut up and release his plays earlier so his clients can get the best number. Advertising the time hurts the bettor with line value.



Dont you wonder from a business standpoint a service like NC has say 1000 clients who pay(pay if it wins) if Oregon wins........say $100 ...so a total......of 100,000 dollars if Oregon wins..............now NC goes and puts 50,000 dollars on the other side (Ucla)..........he is assured of 50,000 and with the way the line moves he even has a good chance of winning both ways..........also if Oregon wins he gets his 100000 from paying customers then pays his UCLA loss 50,000 so he ends up with 50,000 profit and can advertise like all hell for another year............Now shift these numbers to a larger scale than 1000 paying customers and you can see this can become big big big money.............any smart businessman would hedge and guarantee a profit.........Thats another reason why services are such a scam.......especially ones who advertise games of the yr and such

[savage1]

What is even more intriguing is that I personally received several ads from Royal Sports Book in the mail with NC's consent(I called NC to verify this) during the pre season NFL promising me(depending how much I sent them) as much as an entire year of NorthCoast's Executive Service for FREE; even more curious is that right after I received the first ad, NorthCoast did just plain awful in their picks.
No accusations here;perhaps it is just coincidence, but it sure makes you wonder about integrity here.
Even more curiously, this practice appears to have stopped, as I have received nothing from them since pre season.
As I have stated before, I don't trust any sports service which has a deal with a sportsbook any more than a farmer would by having a fox guard the henhouse.

[Blackbeard]

I used to use betonsports .com, but they really suck with deposits & withdrawls. Anyway, they sent me a ncaa preview by who else: Marc loser Lawrence(how bout that lame dallas pick last night and even lamer write up, that made up my mind for me and I bet the eagles). why a sportsbook and tout were partnered seamed fishy to me, also have seen jim feist ads in the past in other bullshit they send out like schedules. There really needs to be some type of regulations, but as long as we use offshore books, stuff can and I'm sure has happened. As for the GOY, I had a thread going a while back that kept track of the MLB goy's, and the services were quite bad for the strectch of time I was keeping track30-40% if I remember(I'll search my posts and get it in a few...).

[Blackbeard]

Hers the thread if anyones interested:
http://www.bettorschat.com/forums/sh...5&pagenumber=4

and heres the last update of GOY's, as you can see services either blow or somethin is up:

Updated 9/23/04 10-17!! 23 service goy, 4 forum goy

Tony George (W)
Tallahasse MLB NL (W), MLB AL (L)
Al Mcmordie (L) udog goy(L)
Byran Leonard (L)
Jim Feist (L)
Sp connection (W)
Lucky Leprechaun (L)
Doc's Sports (L)
Vss/Sandman (W), AL (L)
Totals4u XNFL (L), MLB (L)
Executive (L)
Billy Coleman (W)
East Coast (W)
Brian Gabrielle (W), AL goy(W)
Marc Lawrence (L)
Jimmy Spats (L)
Billy Capone NL(L)
Jeff Benton (L)

EZwinners (L)
Homer (W)
Chuck Lazar (L)
Goldvike (W)

[Georgia Bulldog]

I heard this

I called Northcoast one day. I talked to a man who told me that on the five stars that Millennium holds the lines for Northcoast clients for thirty mins.So you have to call Millennium and tell them you are a client of Northcoast in order to get the lines like Northcoasts clients do. So that is why we dont get the lines like he does. Most of us dont use Millennium they suck.It seems Millennium and Northcoast work together.Has anyone ever heard of this. I dont know if they do this with all of the plays rated three star and higher. It kinda does make sense.

[aplous]

I hate it when people talk about how games are fixed and all that with the refs and so on, but I KNOW FOR FACT these services are scams-

Not all, OCD and Animal are honest and dont bullshit their wins and losses

NC and Mark Lawrence and such have so many clients they can give out whatever they want, middle with their own bets, work with sportsbooks and everything else below the belt.

NEVER, NEVER pay for someone elses shit--

Sat. morning I woke up and saw Oregon laying 9.5 and Friday they were laying 6--I bought the half and bet the shit out of UCLA just b/c of the line movement--

I had no idea it was NC's big play--but like you said--with a line that big, at every friggin book--something aint right and its no surprise that a service is behind it.

[maxell]

I've read everything in this thread twice and I still don't understand what all the fuss is about. When Northcoast is doing well, everything is fine and dandy, nary a harsh word. Let them go on a negative streak, and all the accusations fly-crooks, trying to middle the game, purposely lost the play, etc. Bottom line guys, if you like them when they win, then take it like a man when they lose. They have too much time and money invested in their million dollar businesses to fool around and purposely tank games. Have any of you guys ever had a bad streak? Of course everybody has, did, and, will continue to do so. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and saying you have to play the plays of any service. You seek out their picks and decide what to play and not to play. It's your own fault when you lose and it's your good fortune when you win. If you can't stand to lose playing someone else's plays, then don't even bother seeking out those plays. Invest your own time in handicapping the games and make your own decisions. After all, nobody can guarantee a win, that's why they call it gambling.

[savage1]

Maxell-you may be right in most of what you say about services and specifically in this instance Northcoast.
That being said, many of us including me think it stinks to see deals, promotions, etc. between sports services, sportsbooks and the customer caught in the middle.
If a service thinks it a good idea to "get into bed" with a sportsbook, that's his decision.
As stated, some of us question and have the right the question the integrity and motivation behind that decision.

[griswold]

Millenium and Northcoast

As someone who plays many Nortchoast games, for the life of me I don't understand why it's wrong for Northcoast to cut a deal with Millenium to hold the lines for Northcoast customers.

If the result is that non-customers get a less favorable line, why should Northcoast worry about that. The fact that this is an issue is solely because of the fact that Northcoast is the most heavily used and influential service. The fact that Northcoast has a longstanding major record on top plays results in many players hammering their plays. This causes lines to move, plain and simple. Northcoast often moves lines on simple old regular plays (like college totals). If Northcoast cuts a deal to insulate their own clients from this line movement, they are acting in the best interests of their clients.

As someone who posts service plays all the time, I have no problem with doing it. However, whining about the fact that you got the play after the line has already moved when you got the play for free from someone else is not only bad form; it's idiotic.

[jjoneill]

YOO

I love this info it is SO informative and iteresting i could read this stuff all night!! Personnally i really like to read the info. SAVAGE has. I CAN TELL HES BEEN AROUND THE BLOCK. He knows whats going on. KEEP up the good work and THANX

[maverick2112]

Originally posted by maxell
I've read everything in this thread twice and I still don't understand what all the fuss is about. When Northcoast is doing well, everything is fine and dandy, nary a harsh word. Let them go on a negative streak, and all the accusations fly-crooks, trying to middle the game, purposely lost the play, etc. Bottom line guys, if you like them when they win, then take it like a man when they lose. They have too much time and money invested in their million dollar businesses to fool around and purposely tank games. Have any of you guys ever had a bad streak? Of course everybody has, did, and, will continue to do so. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and saying you have to play the plays of any service. You seek out their picks and decide what to play and not to play. It's your own fault when you lose and it's your good fortune when you win. If you can't stand to lose playing someone else's plays, then don't even bother seeking out those plays. Invest your own time in handicapping the games and make your own decisions. After all, nobody can guarantee a win, that's why they call it gambling.

Maxell..........youre missing the whole point of this thread.....I dont think anyone gives a crap about whether NC wins or loses........I know I would'nt pay a cent for a service that runs multiple services on his community line and on top of that he gives out about 30 games a week with all his plays............

Also I dont think anyone thinks they can tank games..........if I thought that I would think he is a good capper........its just as hard to pick a sure loser as a sure winner........

The point is is that there is more than meets the eye in these sportbook/service realationships...........its all about marketing sports selections to as many people as possible.......its a given that your going to win some and lose some along the way....

By the way I would'nt take northcoasts picks if you gave them to me for free.......if you have played their selections this year you would still be trying to make back the large amount of money you lost in the NFL pre-season..............

[maverick2112]

Re: Millenium and Northcoast

Originally posted by griswold
As someone who plays many Nortchoast games, for the life of me I don't understand why it's wrong for Northcoast to cut a deal with Millenium to hold the lines for Northcoast customers.

If the result is that non-customers get a less favorable line, why should Northcoast worry about that. The fact that this is an issue is solely because of the fact that Northcoast is the most heavily used and influential service. The fact that Northcoast has a longstanding major record on top plays results in many players hammering their plays. This causes lines to move, plain and simple. Northcoast often moves lines on simple old regular plays (like college totals). If Northcoast cuts a deal to insulate their own clients from this line movement, they are acting in the best interests of their clients.

As someone who posts service plays all the time, I have no problem with doing it. However, whining about the fact that you got the play after the line has already moved when you got the play for free from someone else is not only bad form; it's idiotic.

All I do is try to play the books side on these so called big games and to be honest I have done a lot better than I would have by playing these orgional selections.........not to many games where you can get a 3-4 points extra in a game without having to pay for it.