that's why they call it gambling!!!

[MikeSchmidt20]

Another question

Why did the Wolves wait until about 25 seconds left to start with the intentional fouls???

Down 9 or 10 points with about 1:00 to go they are seemingly willing to run out the clock since their shooting barely draws iron and the UNDER looks good.

All of a sudden with the game now completely out of reach they foul three times in the closing seconds and the game goes over.

What's up with that???

[savage1]

Smitty-Lakers missed several free throws down the stretch.
If this had been an isolated example,ok, but this kind of thing as been rampant with the pointspreads and over/unders for the last few years with this team;only someone naive would think that Lakers are not aware of pointspread and/or over under, and that some of players and even referees have not tried at times to make the game come out a certain way.
That lousy record of Lakers ats and with dominance of unders is no accident
Perhaps the Warren Commissio, which has exhausted the Kennedy Conspiracy, should reopen and investigate the Laker Conspiracy.

[TDS]

Official Ed Ruff is being questioned on ESPN radio about going to the scorers table and asking how many fouls Shaq had. The Ref's are not allowed to do that.

[golfguru]

Fuck the Lakers, I lost on both of those games...I hope they break a leg literally...Cheating mother fuckers have gotten there last play from me....NBA is crooked...Nice win for those who had the other side... Either a last second three or a ninth inning blown save have cost me a ton the last week...Will it ever turn around????

[smitty519]

Just wondering...

why this seems to only happen in lakers games? no matter who they play no matter who the refs are, and everybody is in on it, i'm not buying it for one second.

[Tony Vegas]

me either

IMO, all basketball games are like that. There are much more meaningless plays in b-ball games therefore they seem fix. If the games were fixed, the whole world would know. Nothing is kept a secret because there are whistle blowers and rats everywhere. Some loudmouth would brag about being a part of it or someone with info would sell it to some newspaper. It is not worth the risk for the NBA, refs or players. Now if you want to tell me the refs and the league favor certain teams and players, I will bite. But as far as the Lakers intentionally blowing ******, I highly doubt it!

[savage1]

If somehow those not believing could go back and view certain Laker games(sure it goes on with other teams too, but especially the Lakers) over the last two years and playoffs and go back to the last few min utes and be made aware of the score, the pointspread and the over under and watch some of the mysterious things that go on-missed free throws, funny looking turnovers, phantom calls by the res, lack of real calls by the refs,etc., and watched enough of this stuff, I believe one would come away thinking that in many instances some of these games from a betting point of view resemble pro wrestling.

[Tony Vegas]

savage

I think that in every pro and CBB game I watch. it always seems that way b/c so many meaningless plays end up playing a part with the ATS.

[bgh2003]

There is an entirely rational explanation for the conspiracy theories that abound within this thread:

The Lakers are the New York Yankees of basketball. The public loves the Lake Show, and the books know that, so the lines involving LA tend to be inflated and particularly susceptible to back-door cov ers.

Moreover, LA, like any championship-caliber team in any sport, will not put out maximum effort in every game. There are games when teams like this will coast and fail to cov er or even lose straight up. Hell, the Lakers did it in game 2 of the Western Conference Finals.

Players relax in the closing minutes of games, when the matter has been decided--that means missed free throws and careless shots. It doesn't mean the players are throwing the game. Do you think Kobe cares about his FT percentage when the Lakers are up 10 with 50 seconds to go in the deciding game of the Western Finals?

Finally, basketball is the most difficult of the American sports to handicap, because of the frequency of scoring in the game. A 15 point lead can be reduced to 2 in 3 minutes or less (witness game 5 of the Western Finals). A 2 point lead can be built to 15 in 3 minutes or less by missed shots and repeated fouling by the losing team. Unlike football and baseball, which present a limited number of scoring opportunities per game, basketball involves constant scoring, which means that no cover is safe until the final horn. The Lakers, as routine favorites, are particularly susceptible to blowing ****** in the final minutes.

Now, I have a question: I was not betting on sports during the run of the Chicago Bulls from 1996 to 1998. I am curious to know from anyone who bet the NBA during that time how successful the Bulls were ATS. I would think that Chicago was routinely a daunting favorite, and I would not be surprised if the Bulls were as miserable ATS as the Lakers are today.

[MikeSchmidt20]

Savage, you missed my point. I was not pushing any conspiracy theories, rather expressing frustration at seemingly stupid coaching by Minnesota.

As the game went under two minutes the Wolves still had an outside shot, though extremely unlikely, at a comeback, yet they refused to start with the intentional fouls. In fact, in the few minutes prior to that, they didn't even resort to the Hack-a-Shaq as in previous games.

Then, after numerous bricks and Laker steals, with the game completely out of reach, they committed several intentional fouls with about 25 seconds or less and behind by double digits. This caused a likely UNDER to go over.

Conspiracy? I don't know. Frustrating? Somewhat. It's not like I had the rent riding on it.

I do agree that league HQ definitely wants the Lakers to go the finals. Although if they were concerned about ratings, why would they grant a CABLE channel the rights to the Western Conference finals and let them start the game after 9 p.m. ET on a national holiday??? ABC = MIA

Footnote: At the beginning of the telecast Marvelous Marv Albert expressed surprise that "the usually late-arriving Laker fans have packed the Staples Center well before tip-off". Well, DUH, Marv. L.A. fans arrive late for nationally televised games because it's impossible to get anywhere in town after work by 6:00 local time. They got there in time yesterday because it was a HOLIDAY.

[markman]

I doubt

any games are fixed. It's all coincidence. I was a bookie and you would be surprised how often a bookie gets slaughtered. As for the Bulls, I booked during their runs. Believe it or not, they were pretty damn good versus the spread. What was interesting with the Bulls is that gamblers were not totally crazy betting on them. You would think they were a public favorite, but far from it. People bet versus the Bulls a lot. My guess is that everyone got accustomed to Jordan's game winning shots. So, public knew the Bulls were a team that usually played in tight games. Because they never had a dominating center that could score which meant less BUll blow outs. For those who think Lakers are blowing ****** on purpose, I doubt it. Lakers numbers are inflated and like last night many times the public bites on the other side. Everyone took Minnesota last night. Well most of my buddy's action indicated that. The Lakers still didn't cover.

[savage1]

I respect all of your opinions but having watched NBA basketball since the 50's and bet on it since the 70's, I maintain that in case of Lakers the past few years I have personally seen enough strange stuff going on in especially late in games to think it is merely coincidence that the pointspread and/or the total were at stake when these happenings were occurring ;each to his own.

[markman]

Actually

Do you know that over 70% this year in NBA basketball the games have ended within 5 points of the point spread. Look at tonight if Pacers miss that prayer, Pistons get fouled and end up either pushing or some places covering. It just seems that way, but how many times can you name winning games so easily that the point spread didn't come into play? It usually does. If it didn't then the oddsmakers would be out of jobs. They need to be as accurate as possible so they can attract a case for both sides of a bet. Just think how many times in the last minutes and seconds you sweat waiting for the outcome of the point spread. It happens every where. For gamblers, it seems fishy and they start talking fixes and pay offs. Only gamblers have these perceptions. The Lakers not covering last night and the game going over had nothing to do with the Lakers but everything to do with Minny. Why didn't Minny concede and let the last seconds run out? If a game is fixed it would cost millions. Why would the people fixing the game risk it coming down to a 25 gooter down the buzzer? If Lakers weren't going to cover to the fix, then they would have never gotten beyond the 8 or 9 point range. A fix is impossible to pull off without someone finding out. More importantly, what's the motivation for a fix? These players are muti millionaires. Why would Kobe miss FT's on purpose for a few million when he makes that in one month of endorsements. Wouldn't the risk out weight the rewards?

[savage1]

Markman-the last sentence is easy. POWER.
You analyze too much;believe me these players have huge egos, and just because you or I wouldn't do it, doesn't mean an NBA player wouldn't.
Why do millionaires sometimes shoplift?(and this is true).
Case closed.
Regarding the remainder of your post, your opinion is just as good as mine, but based on first paragraph and watching some of Laker games carefully over the last few years, when something is at stake, I frankly will stick by my conviction.
It is by my thinking no accident that Lakers with their great record have a way below average covering ratio and too many unders.
Since the public mentality it Lakers and over, that in itself tells me something.

[markman]

Savage

Point taken. But, I'm sticking to my beliefs as well with no disrespect to yours. Why do Lakers have horrible covering ratio? Not cause Lakers are fixing games, but because the oddsmakers inflate and exaggerate their point spreads. They just can't beat the inflated numbers. By the way who are these guys fixing for? It'd make much more sense to fix games with less profiles. Hey like I said I used to book for a long time and still follow bookies actions. The ones that survive are the ones that can get even action or dump lobsided actions. Just like the Lakers, don't you think the public bets the Yankees every night? And Yankee overs? If that was the case, wouldn't teams like Yankees lose more than shit teams like Expos? When I was losing my ass off gambling that's when I stated booking cause I thought that the public cannot win and only the house does. Did it for 7 years and I found out that the house doesn't win cause people can't pick winners. Public picks winners at a very high rate. That's what creates the attraction for the public. People lose cause of chasing losses and not having discipline. I saw it all the time. Gamblers going 3-1 and still lose cause they would bet one game for way more than other games. Ranking and rating games is a curse.