Baseball Managers

[frankb03]

Baseball managers are horrible. They don't manage anymore. They allow stats and computers to make all their decisions. Irregardless how a pitcher is pitching they remove them strictly based on pitch count. Then bring in lousy relievers.

In tonight A's game, aside from one bad inning, Hudson was pitching very well. After 7 innings his pitch count was 97. He never saw the 8th inning. The manager bring in Jim Mecir who gives up 5 earned runs without recording an out. Then he brings in Ricardo Rincon. The first batter he faced he walks in a run.

In Baltimore, Rodrigo Lopez for 3.2 innings pitched effectively. With two outs in the 7th he walks a batter. The manager makes a change. In comes Buddy Groom. He gives up a base hit throwing 3 pitches. Another pitching change. In comes Mike DeJean. Wilson base hit run scores. Next batter, Cabrera base hit. Another run scores.

It goes on and on. When will it stop?

[Ripped71]

I know what you mean Frank...two games that just go up in smoke because managers think their dumb stats are like the word of God!

[frankb03]

Here we go again!!!!

White Sox bring in Cliff Politte to start the 8th after Neal Cotts pitching 1 inning with 2 K's. Why 1 inning? Politte proceeds to give a homer to the first batter he faced. Followed by a single and a walk.


Oooops not done. In comes Damaso Marte walk to load the bases. Then a sac fly. TIE GAME!

[Spiccoli]

Manager's suck

Don't feel bad....I had KC and the Over. They load the bases regularly and strike out.

[Tigger]

Frank hit it on the head.......

I hate the White Sox. They blew a 7 teamer for me worth a lot. What the hell is with the chess match between manager this year bringing in pitchers every inning. Using 8 pitchers in a single game? What's the point? Pisses me off, the last guy for the White Sox blew the whole game; I've seen too many already lost this year because of this crap.

~~~ Tigger

[thesandman]

Frank. I started reading your post and I'm thinking what he's talking about can't be as bad as what Macha did tonight. Then I see you saw the same crap I did. This is not the first or even the tenth time that Macha has pulled Hudson from a game he was winning and the so called bullpen comes in and blows the save. Hudson was screwed out of at least 5 more wins last season and now another one tonight. What the hell happened to the 4 man rotation and over half their starts were complete games.

[Kaptain]

FRANK

Managers decisions are part of that "intangible" section way beyond bettors control....

In the last 43+ years, I would like to have the $ those (so-called) decision makers--aka Managers-have cost me...You can handicap a game perfectly, based on pitchers, and Bull Pen, appear to have the game, and they pull their ALMIGHTY decisions, right out of their anal section...

It seems like teams with BP ERAs that are great, leave a pitcher in too long, and those with terrible ERAs, pull their ACE with less than 100 pitches...cause some Pitching Coach(now just statiscians) have some UN GODLY way determined that 100 pitches is his limit....In the GOOD OLD DAYS, you pitched till you got the hell banged out of you...Whatever happened to asking the PITCHER, how he feels....

MLB's worst coach for this is Larussa for Cards...Famous for that stuff, and it's apparent he doesn't know squat about pitching....Look at his staffs pitching record...Go back to last year --RED SOX 5 outs from playing for it all---Mr Martinez--exhausted--hi pitch count---should have come out---goofy Mgr.--says (stay with him)---bam--they're out...Dodgers Coaching staff appear to know how/when to make cahnges...C W Sox are terrible and Indians w/ pitching changes at wrong times....INTANGIBLES...

[Bennojd]

Frank:

You are right on the money about this issue!
As for what these managers are thinking: I don't get it either!

Bennojd

[MemphisMafia]

Re: FRANK

Originally posted by kmann
Managers decisions are part of that "intangible" section way beyond bettors control....

In the last 43+ years, I would like to have the $ those (so-called) decision makers--aka Managers-have cost me...You can handicap a game perfectly, based on pitchers, and Bull Pen, appear to have the game, and they pull their ALMIGHTY decisions, right out of their anal section...

It seems like teams with BP ERAs that are great, leave a pitcher in too long, and those with terrible ERAs, pull their ACE with less than 100 pitches...cause some Pitching Coach(now just statiscians) have some UN GODLY way determined that 100 pitches is his limit....In the GOOD OLD DAYS, you pitched till you got the hell banged out of you...Whatever happened to asking the PITCHER, how he feels....

MLB's worst coach for this is Larussa for Cards...Famous for that stuff, and it's apparent he doesn't know squat about pitching....Look at his staffs pitching record...Go back to last year --RED SOX 5 outs from playing for it all---Mr Martinez--exhausted--hi pitch count---should have come out---goofy Mgr.--says (stay with him)---bam--they're out...Dodgers Coaching staff appear to know how/when to make cahnges...C W Sox are terrible and Indians w/ pitching changes at wrong times....INTANGIBLES...

In a Word :

" Amen "

G.L.

***MMM***

:cool: :cool: :cool:

ps - Im tellin ya , Bud Seligs behind it all

[bgh2003]

Originally posted by thesandman
Frank. I started reading your post and I'm thinking what he's talking about can't be as bad as what Macha did tonight. Then I see you saw the same crap I did. This is not the first or even the tenth time that Macha has pulled Hudson from a game he was winning and the so called bullpen comes in and blows the save. Hudson was screwed out of at least 5 more wins last season and now another one tonight. What the hell happened to the 4 man rotation and over half their starts were complete games.

Baseball has changed. With a four run lead in the eighth inning and with Hudson's pitch count over 100, Macha is not going to leave him in. The days you allude to are over--bullpens are expected to finish the job now. If Hudson were throwing a 1 or 2 hitter and was under 100 pitches, maybe you leave him in and bring in the closer in the ninth inning. Unfortunately, the Oakland bullpen is one of the least reliable in baseball these days.

I know what you mean, though. 2 years ago, when Mark Prior first came up with the Cubs, Don Baylor would always pull him in the 6th or 7th inning, trying not to overuse him. The Cub bullpen would come in and promptly blow the game. I got smoked a couple times laying wood with the Cubs in those situations.

[Bennojd]

bgh2003:

You are right!
Baseball (MLB) has changed...........FOR THE WORSE!!!!!!!!!

Bennojd

[frankb03]

Originally posted by bgh2003
Baseball has changed. With a four run lead in the eighth inning and with Hudson's pitch count over 100, Macha is not going to leave him in. The days you allude to are over--bullpens are expected to finish the job now. If Hudson were throwing a 1 or 2 hitter and was under 100 pitches, maybe you leave him in and bring in the closer in the ninth inning. Unfortunately, the Oakland bullpen is one of the least reliable in baseball these days.

I know what you mean, though. 2 years ago, when Mark Prior first came up with the Cubs, Don Baylor would always pull him in the 6th or 7th inning, trying not to overuse him. The Cub bullpen would come in and promptly blow the game. I got smoked a couple times laying wood with the Cubs in those situations.

I agree! Baseball has changed. That change has not been for the better. Clearly, the way the game is played now is not working. Far too many blown leads.

Managers should take the lead of Atlanta. They 'overworked' that staff for years. Within 2 days of pitching the starts were throwing. They didn't 'baby' those arms. For a decade they had the best pitching. No arm troubles with their starters.

In every other sport the athlete has gotten bigger, faster, stronger etc. Except baseball pitchers. Generatons ago it was the norm to pitch 300+ innings. Most pitchers completed most of their starts. What has changed?