BOSTON at TORONTO ...OBVIOUS OUTCOME

[wayne1218]

Disagree...

SHOCKING!!!

I didn't read beyond that word.

[TwoTonTony]

Tony, How many Yankee fans and NY Newspapers wanted Joe Torre fired in the 1st 4 months of the season? A ton. The guy has NEVER missed the playoffs in NY and has multiple WS titles. I couldn't believe it then when I WAS the one here sticking up for Torre.

Now that the Yankees are winning, how often do you hear them say they want Torre fired? Never??

We know it's all good when you are winning, and not when you are losing. A manager will always be judged by one thing and that is his record. Last time i looked and as i type this, they are tied for the BEST record in baseball and they have been there for most of the year. If you would have said that Boston would have the best record in bases in mid september before the season started, every one of us would have gladly accepted that in any case.

I think Francona has done a excellent job overall. Last year when injuries hit, that didn't happen and they fell apart. They have had to deal with alot of injuries in the last month this year too with some very key players like Manny, Youk, Okajima, Schilling, Wakefield and Crisp. The young guys have done an amazing job this year and overall i think Francona has kept this team together pretty well. He didn't trade for Gagne, the front office did. I also can't blame him or them for giving one of the best closers of all time multiple chances to right the ship, especially with Okajima hurt. Gagne has never struggled like this and they had no reason to believe he would when the trade happened. Considering the make shift lineups and Rookies involved in the last month (due to injuries), they have done o.k.

At some point the players have to shoulder some of the responsibilty and it's up to them to hit and pitch, not Francona.

I agree that managers manage and players have to play. We agree 100%.....However, i do hold Gagne responsible, but to experiment in that spot last night and watch it explode and keep watching it is ridiculous. Yes, they were calling for Joes head, but i do not think it was because of moves. They had serious hitting problems and pitching problems. Do not think that many of the things he was doing were illogical. Also Torre to me is a better baseball man than Francona will ever be.

Another thing i always found peculiar with Francona is that when a player has a great night he gives them the next day off......especially when a player is slumping and then seems to find his stroke..... He did it earlier this year with Crisp first, Lugo and then JD Drew.....I thought it was just me, but a buddy of mine brought it up too....

I also use the example of Varitek not being dropped down in the order the last month. There is no shame in that. I believe sometimes a player has to play through it....sometimes they need a night off.....(august and september are tough on catchers anyways)......but he watched him fail and fail and fail for over 50 at bats averaging under .150, almost striking out 45% of the time and countless men LOB. This is what i mean by being too loyal........Parcells learned the loyalty lesson the hard way. His first responsibility is to win games and Varitek being the Captain would understand to bat him 8th or 9th until he got his stroke straight would benefit the team.

[The Lovedoc]

Girardi will be a great fit in NY next year

[The Lovedoc]

SHOCKING!!!

I didn't read beyond that word.

Sure you didn't!!

[TwoTonTony]

Girardi will be a great fit in NY next year

he would be a great fit anywhere....see florida this year with a Players manager.....

Whenever i hear players coach......i say uh-oh......gonna suck

[wayne1218]

I agree that managers manage and players have to play. We agree 100%.....However, i do hold Gagne responsible, but to experiment in that spot last night and watch it explode and keep watching it is ridiculous. Yes, they were calling for Joes head, but i do not think it was because of moves. They had serious hitting problems and pitching problems. Do not think that many of the things he was doing were illogical. Also Torre to me is a better baseball man than Francona will ever be.

Another thing i always found peculiar with Francona is that when a player has a great night he gives them the next day off......especially when a player is slumping and then seems to find his stroke..... He did it earlier this year with Crisp first, Lugo and then JD Drew.....I thought it was just me, but a buddy of mine brought it up too....

I also use the example of Varitek not being dropped down in the order the last month. There is no shame in that. I believe sometimes a player has to play through it....sometimes they need a night off.....(august and september are tough on catchers anyways)......but he watched him fail and fail and fail for over 50 at bats averaging under .150, almost striking out 45% of the time and countless men LOB. This is what i mean by being too loyal........Parcells learned the loyalty lesson the hard way. His first responsibility is to win games and Varitek being the Captain would understand to bat him 8th or 9th until he got his stroke straight would benefit the team.

Tony,

Before last night Gagne had given up 1 ER in his last 7 appearances. His last 2 outings were both against the NY Yankees and he had 2 IP, 1 hit, 0 ER, and 1 K. With Okajima hurting, there was no reason not to believe Gagne could come in to pitch an inning. Did Francona screw up by not letting Papelbon get 4 outs? Maybe, but i can't blame him for bringing Gagne in.

I guess we want the same thing. You just see the glass as 1/2 empty ... and i see it as 1/2 full.

[wayne1218]

Sure you didn't!!

I swear on my son's life. I have no clue what you said after word one and i still don't. No interest.

[TheRook]

SHOCKING!!!

I didn't read beyond that word.

OMG!!!!!


post of the day.....


i can't stop laughing

[The Lovedoc]

I swear on my son's life. I have no clue what you said after word one and i still don't. No interest.

Then your not doing a good job being a MOD!!


I have to talk to Monte about this

[wayne1218]

Then your not doing a good job being a MOD!!


I have to talk to Monte about this

No, i'm actually doing my job because if i wasn't a Mod, you would be on "IGNORE" and your not.

[TwoTonTony]

Tony,

Before last night Gagne had given up 1 ER in his last 7 appearances. His last 2 outings were both against the NY Yankees and he had 2 IP, 1 hit, 0 ER, and 1 K. With Okajima hurting, there was no reason not to believe Gagne could come in to pitch an inning. Did Francona screw up by not letting Papelbon get 4 outs? Maybe, but i can't blame him for bringing Gagne in.

I guess we want the same thing. You just see the glass as 1/2 empty ... and i see it as 1/2 full.

No...it is not about seeing any glasses half anything...I am as positive person as there is......believe me. I make my living at turning around underperforming territories or businesses....So i always see the positive.....But do not piss on my leg and tell me its raining either....

Here is where my questions lie:

#1) Why not give Manny D. more than one out....I think he has earned that right and don't we still need to find out about him

#2) I do not begrudge bringing in Gagne..(i want him to succeed).....that being said 1) all his success has been in relatively benign situations with nothing on the line 2) when he got in real deep and could not find the strike zone (not even close on 5 straight pitches.......you could tell he lost his confidence.....which was further solidified if you saw his face during the locker room interview)....this is where his night should have ended.....for his confidence as well.......Is it better to leave him out there too long?? Does that make him more confident??? I do not think so....

#3) If manny D was given the extra inning and gagne got the 2 outs then Pap would not have had to bail out 4 outs....just 1

*** So i guess i could say that i see the glass realistically....but i won't because there is opinions to everything......and i have mine and you telling me i am negative will not change mine.....

[TheRook]

No...it is not about seeing any glasses half anything...I am as positive person as there is......believe me. I make my living at turning around underperforming territories or businesses....So i always see the positive.....But do not piss on my leg and tell me its raining either....

Here is where my questions lie:

#1) Why not give Manny D. more than one out....I think he has earned that right and don't we still need to find out about him

#2) I do not begrudge bringing in Gagne..(i want him to succeed).....that being said 1) all his success has been in relatively benign situations with nothing on the line 2) when he got in real deep and could not find the strike zone (not even close on 5 straight pitches.......you could tell he lost his confidence.....which was further solidified if you saw his face during the locker room interview)....this is where his night should have ended.....for his confidence as well.......Is it better to leave him out there too long?? Does that make him more confident??? I do not think so....

#3) If manny D was given the extra inning and gagne got the 2 outs then Pap would not have had to bail out 4 outs....just 1

*** So i guess i could say that i see the glass realistically....but i won't because there is opinions to everything......and i have mine and you telling me i am negative will not change mine.....

Whatever Mr Negative

[wayne1218]

I don't know Tony. I still have faith in Francona and the Sox. That's really all i know at this point. lol

Too many others are down on them and their every move. I don't feel like being one of them i guess.

[wayne1218]

Whatever Mr Negative

No shit huh? I'm not negative BUT ....... lol

He honestly sounds like every person i heard on the radio here today. It gets depressing! lol

[The Lovedoc]

No, i'm actually doing my job because if i wasn't a Mod, you would be on "IGNORE" and your not.

Oh come on... Your making me look like a bad seed... I'm far from that. I am well liked around here and a well respected member.. You should not have any ill will towards me.