BOSTON at TORONTO ...OBVIOUS OUTCOME

[TwoTonTony]

i still do not like the mode we are going into now.....the playoffs are the most important thing....blah blah blah....there is no excuse for the collapse IMHO and the excuses that come from Franconas mouth i ain't buying....

[wayne1218]

I Dont Know , Thendy Is Usually Right On This Shit - About Tonights Games That Is- The Other Arguement I Agree With Wayne

GREEK, Similiar analogy here.

It would be like the Cubs playing St Louis in the NLCS. The Cards go up 3-0 and they win game 3 by a score of 18-1 in Chicago. Every Cub fan is totally depressed and every Cardinal fan is just rubbing it, the Goat and everything else in their face. Well, the Cubs come back and win games 4, 5 & 6 ... Then they go to St Louis for gm. 7 and win convincingly. A week later, they are WS champions after sweeping the A.L. team. Knowing how much pain Cub and Sox fans have felt together, would there be any better way for the Cubs to win one? It would be hard to match.

[wayne1218]

i still do not like the mode we are going into now.....the playoffs are the most important thing....blah blah blah....there is no excuse for the collapse IMHO and the excuses that come from Franconas mouth i ain't buying....

The CWS were struggling heading into the playoffs and won a ws. Last year Detroit blew the division and still made the series. On the other side, a very average regular season Stl team that squeaked in to the playoffs and won the WS. To me, it is a good example of why every team is (0-0) once the post season starts. How you played yesterday, means absolutely nothing at that time.

[GOLDENGREEK]

GREEK, Similiar analogy here.

It would be like the Cubs playing St Louis in the NLCS. The Cards go up 3-0 and they win game 3 by a score of 18-1 in Chicago. Every Cub fan is totally depressed and every Cardinal fan is just rubbing it, the Goat and everything else in their face. Well, the Cubs come back and win games 4, 5 & 6 ... Then they go to St Louis for gm. 7 and win convincingly. A week later, they are WS champions after sweeping the A.L. team. Knowing how much pain Cub and Sox fans have felt together, would there be any better way for the Cubs to win one? It would be hard to match.

Absolutely- this is the part of the aruement I agreed with you. I just agreed with thendy on the probable outcomes of tonights games.

Also let the cubbies win the world series and I would care if it was against the devil rays

[wayne1218]

Absolutely- this is the part of the aruement I agreed with you. I just agreed with thendy on the probable outcomes of tonights games.

Also let the cubbies win the world series and I would care if it was against the devil rays

Oh i agree. We felt the same way but when the Yankees rolled over like dogs in 4 straight and became the 1ST IN HISTORY to do it, it was like winning the lottery and the WS for us!

[TwoTonTony]

The CWS were struggling heading into the playoffs and won a ws. Last year Detroit blew the division and still made the series. On the other side, a very average regular season Stl team that squeaked in to the playoffs and won the WS. To me, it is a good example of why every team is (0-0) once the post season starts. How you played yesterday, means absolutely nothing at that time.

not playing well is one thing....amking poor managerial decision after poor managerial decision is hard to swallow.....Nothing he has done convinces me that all will be okay once we are 0-0....

For some reason we buckle against the Yankees.....It could be all their left handed bats but we are merely mortal against them.....This monumental collapse (if it takes place) can not do anything to bolster their confidence....I have heard all the lining up our rotation stuff and getting rest.....But to let the pennant go like this and then start off 0-0 i would bet against the sox against any of the other 3 teams.....I for one would not want to face that beast Sabathia twice.....

JMHO....

the 0-0 theory has followed suit the last few years....cards finished slow last year...tigers were in tailspin.....but what have we solved??? i think our rotation is more unsettled now than ever....What have we found out? Well, we could have found out a little more about Manny Del Carmen last night...We gave him 1 batter....but we give this fuckhead Gagne so much rope......based on what???? he has done nothing and has not shown an ounce of being close to what we thought we were getting....When is enough enough.....

My problem is the day after we give that game away the Wild Card theory is now shoved down our throats and it feels like that is what they are shooting for.....

Yankees would never talk like that.......Pre-making excuses before it even happens so we can say that it doesn't matter....

I hate to say it.....I wish we were more like them......when it came to winning

[wayne1218]

not playing well is one thing....amking poor managerial decision after poor managerial decision is hard to swallow.....Nothing he has done convinces me that all will be okay once we are 0-0....

He won a WS so that tells me he is at least good enough to do it. That's more than Grady Little or any other can say. He has made some questionable moves, no doubt ... But Francona will have every move disected for the rest of his career in Boston. That comes with the territory.

[wayne1218]

I hate to say it.....I wish we were more like them......when it came to winning

After our 26th Title ... We will.

[TwoTonTony]

He won a WS so that tells me he is at least good enough to do it. That's more than Grady Little or any other can say. He has made some questionable moves, no doubt ... But Francona will have every move disected for the rest of his career in Boston. That comes with the territory.

Wayne....i know he won a world series...but i believe as do many others they won in spite of him, not because of him. I am a believer a good manager will WIN you 7-10 games a year. I also want you to recall right before the all-star break in 04 when the Boston Herald was calling him Francoma and calling for his head. We were basically .500 and were about to dismantle the team and have a salary dump....and wala..we got rid of Nomar and magic happened....

Our team is loaded......and i think the way the Boston brass has it set-up is for the manager to be more of a puppet than NY.....i.e. Francona was on the phone as Epstein called the shots on Buckholtzs pitch count on the no-hitter. and look at Franconas salary compared to others.....

IMHO Franconas best trait is also his worst.....He is too loyal to his players.....I just do not think he is a good game coach. NEver have and never will. I am also not a hyper-critical type person and a micro-manager, but i just do not get his style at all

[The Lovedoc]

It stung a 2nd time too a week later when Yankee fans had to sit through watching us in a WS in which we swept St Louis.

I have not heard the word "Curse" used since then and that was their "Crutch" for the last 50 years. They also can't say anything about us not winning in 86 years anymore and they loved that one too. All that was eliminated in '04 and Sox fans will have that in their memory forever. The greatest team in sports could have had that happen to ANYONE else except for the "Greatest One's" arch enemy and it would not have been nearly as big a deal. That didn't happen.

TMAC and Doc have said MULTIPLE times over the last month that the division means absolutely nothing to them AS LONG as they make the playoffs. That's funny 'cuz they are on here jerking off with each game gained in the standings. Which is it? It's hilarious how the division "Suddenly" matters to Yankee fans. lol

3 of the last 5 WS Winners have been the WC Team. I guess as they stated, the division really doesn't matter huh? We'll see .......

Disagree... The division doesn't mean shit to me. The only reason why i'm ragging on redsox fans is because you guys thought you had the division all wrapped up... Hell even i thought that too. It will be a bigger blow to sox fans if they dont win the division.. I was talking with Dimer the other day and talked about the same thing. He is going to be very pissed if they dont win the division this year.. I told him most likely the sox are going to win it. He is very nervous right now that the sox have just given up

[TwoTonTony]

After our 26th Title ... We will.

Wayne.....i think we will be dead!!!

[TwoTonTony]

Disagree... The division doesn't mean shit to me. The only reason why i'm ragging on redsox fans is because you guys thought you had the division all wrapped up... Hell even i thought that too. It will be a bigger blow to sox fans if they dont win the division.. I was talking with Dimer the other day and talked about the same thing. He is going to be very pissed if they dont win the division this year.. I told him most likely the sox are going to win it. He is very nervous right now that the sox have just given up

the division would not mean shit to me if i were the chaser by 14.5 games.....However, to me (can not speak for other sox fans) being the one looking in the rear view mirror does mean shit to me......

[The Lovedoc]

I just dont want to play the fucking angels in the 1st round.... So, if cleveland has the best record between the 2, then i will be happier than shit with a WC

[THENDY]

Im a CUB fan and ive heard of a GOAT , A black CAT and a BARTMAN.......BOTTOM LINE IS THEY HAVENT GOT IT DONE.....NO EXCUSES!

[wayne1218]

Tony, How many Yankee fans and NY Newspapers wanted Joe Torre fired in the 1st 4 months of the season? A ton. The guy has NEVER missed the playoffs in NY and has multiple WS titles. I couldn't believe it then when I WAS the one here sticking up for Torre.

Now that the Yankees are winning, how often do you hear them say they want Torre fired? Never??

We know it's all good when you are winning, and not when you are losing. A manager will always be judged by one thing and that is his record. Last time i looked and as i type this, they are tied for the BEST record in baseball and they have been there for most of the year. If you would have said that Boston would have the best record in bases in mid september before the season started, every one of us would have gladly accepted that in any case.

I think Francona has done a excellent job overall. Last year when injuries hit, that didn't happen and they fell apart. They have had to deal with alot of injuries in the last month this year too with some very key players like Manny, Youk, Okajima, Schilling, Wakefield and Crisp. The young guys have done an amazing job this year and overall i think Francona has kept this team together pretty well. He didn't trade for Gagne, the front office did. I also can't blame him or them for giving one of the best closers of all time multiple chances to right the ship, especially with Okajima hurt. Gagne has never struggled like this and they had no reason to believe he would when the trade happened. Considering the make shift lineups and Rookies involved in the last month (due to injuries), they have done o.k.

At some point the players have to shoulder some of the responsibilty and it's up to them to hit and pitch, not Francona.