Tough Night For LeBron and the Cavs

[10DimeBry]

I'm not saying Wade isnt a stud player. he is. my point simply is lebron is the real deal. he is a top 5 player in the game. the cavs team is brutal. w/o lebron they dont even make the playoffs. what did the heat do this year in the playoffs? they got swept by the bulls. wade had shaq,zo,payton,walker. who does lebron have? A bunch of nobodies. thats who.

[Kaptain]

You guys could argue this till you're all blue in the face.....Here's a 24 year old player, with great talent, and a 22 year old with great talent....

You can look at it several ways, and then argue, meaninglessly, yet once again....

Wade, stepped up, played hurt, and HELPED carry his team, and also had Sahq in there to support....Nice Support....

James, brought the Cavs from the Cellar, to the Finals, and basicly doesn't have the support others has....

Spurs D, has made many a plyaer this year look mediocre....Thats why they win championships....

Fellow NBA players voted Jamwes as better than Wade.....When your own Peers, competitors say you're the best, that says something....Overwhelmingly voted that way....

The Ring Wade has, is impressive, however; there's been many a great athlete that, were the best in their trade, that never got a ring....I think 7 time no Hitter N Ryan is one of em....I could be mistaken....

Both of these guys are too young to make emphatic statement as to who is better, at this stage, only time will tell...That's like trying to say Bonds, is better than Mays, Mantle, AAron, Clemente, Williams, etc....

We are all entitled to opinions, and a simple IMO in your respective statements suffices and shows respect for others opinions....

Starting out your statement, with,..........first of all, you're wrong...........pretty emphatic, no IMO included.....Dreamer......inference to one in la la land, and doesn't know what he's talking about....

Let's try and use a little class fellows, when you get into a debate re who is better.......Respect each others opinions, and quit acting like your opinion is GOLD, and the only one that counts.....

We learn by discussing, showing pros and cons, stats, polls, and benefit from it, it will be many years, before this debate will be settled......kapt

[Three Jack]

And this series will show the difference in the two. I guarantee you when the Cavs are down 0-2 on Sunday, the "caped one" won't bring them back.....as for the Shaq comments. ANYONE who knows anything about basketball knows that Shaq did not have a good Finals last year. In fact, Zo, Walker, and Co each chipped in to make up for alot of Shaq's inability to be a force in the Finals a year ago.

Sooner, just a slight contradiction...you say this series will show the diffeence in the 2 and how LeBron won't bring them back foom an 0-2 deficit, and then you say that Zo, Walker and Co chipped in...of course they did because Wade, as great as he is (top 3 in the NBA) had help, something LeBron will not get this series! This proves my point that you can't say Wade is better than LeBron as a result of winnng a tite! You can say he is better because you think he is a more talent. That's your opinion and we can argue that for the next 12 -15 yrs. But not because he won a championship. Spurs will win in 5 and that does nothing to diminish how good LeBron is or isn't.


[/QUOTE] I know Jack claims that the NBA players say Lebron is better, but you know what? [/QUOTE]
I don't claim anything...it is a FACT, a big difference in the two. Go get last weeks issue of SI and read for yourself. You don't have to believe me, you can read it in black and white.

[TheRook]

I love it!!! Overhyped fucker!! IMO Dewayne Wade is the best OVERALL Player to come out of that class.. I will say it until the day that I die.. I hate em but GO SPURS GO!!

D Wade was put on a better team and he was older.

Lebron was and still is on a overrated team that is playing over their heads IMO.

He will be by far and away the better overall player in that class, or in any class for a long time.

You can say it till the day you die...and you'll be wrong every time.

[TheRook]

Correct me if im wrong on this one.. But what happened when Shaq got hurt and was out?? And also what happened when the Heat got down 0-2 in the finals?? D-Wade took the Heat on his back and took over and lead his team through the injury and through the finals and won it.. DWade is a better all around player than Lebron i will say it until the day i die..

DWade also had a lot more support.

Look at the two teams, hell look at the two coaches.

The heat had players with a TON of playoff experience to pick up Shaq's slack.

Cleveland hardly has anyone with that much experience.

Wade stepped it up in the finals...

but then again...Cleveland was down 0-2 in the conference finals as well, and Lebron took it upon himself to carry that team as well.

What are we going to sit back and remember....D Wade in any of the NBA finals games or Lebron scoring his teams last 25 points in 4th quarter and 2 OT's to win a crutial game 5?

I am fairly confident that if you took a poll, King James would get the nod.

Both GREAT players, but if I had to pick one, It would be Lebron hands down no questions asked.

[TwoTonTony]

nobody i say nobody has muti-shot capability of sebastian telfair....this can not even be argued!!!


he can shoot from anywhere

free throw line
3 pt line
from his car in a drive by
at a pistol range

* he also possesses the versatility to beat you with a cross-over dribble or a pistol whipping

i would like you see you argue that on Kaptain!!

[TMAC951]

D Wade was put on a better team and he was older.

Lebron was and still is on a overrated team that is playing over their heads IMO.

He will be by far and away the better overall player in that class, or in any class for a long time.

You can say it till the day you die...and you'll be wrong every time.

So your saying that Bron is a better free throw shooter? What about a better assist to turnover ratio?? What about better 3pt shooter?? What about Better TEAM player?? Was it DWade fault that he got drafted by the heat and bron got picked by the Cavs?? When I say Wade is a better ALL AROUND player I mean in every aspect of the game.. If you cant see that.. Then I guess you never will..

[live jive]

its one game geez, first of all wade had one of most dominant players in shaq, former multiple time all stars in payton, zo, walker and they played the no defense mavs they are lucky spurs werent in it last yr....seems to me wade is bit injury prone so what he played thru pain if he aint helpin team he bout as useful as puttin me on the court...lebron is gonna be the shaq of his position for 10 yrs and wade is gonna lose his veteran lineup and lead his team nowhere and be the ben rothlisberger of his position just like when ben lost bettis and defense wasnt as good he couldnt carry team and he had health issues---ben and wade got their ring but neither gonna be able to lead a team on own but bron can do it on own while makin guys like pavlovic and gibson respectable players

[ULikeApples]

So your saying that Bron is a better free throw shooter? What about a better assist to turnover ratio?? What about better 3pt shooter?? What about Better TEAM player?? Was it DWade fault that he got drafted by the heat and bron got picked by the Cavs?? When I say Wade is a better ALL AROUND player I mean in every aspect of the game.. If you cant see that.. Then I guess you never will..

Some stuff I posted on another thread about this same ridiculousness:

Interesting that someone else brought up how they'd take Wade over LeBron for some reason. In the SI I got in the mail yesterday, they polled NBA players the same thing, and I think it was 72% that said LeBron. One would think they would have a good perspective to pick.

I don't know about Wade being the better shooter either. Here are both of their FG% the last 3 years:

Wade
47.8, 49.5, 49.1

LeBron
47.2, 48.0, 47.6

Slight advantage for Wade. Now from 3:

Wade
28.9, 17.1, 26.6

LeBron
35.1, 33.5, 31.9

A little more of an advantage for LeBron there.

Now FTs:

Wade
76.2, 78.3, 80.7

LeBron
75.0, 73.8, 69.8

Edge to Wade, and it certainly isn't good that LeBron is regressing there.

However, if you had each player taking 10 three point shots from 5 points around the arc, 25 from each elbow, and 25 from each baseline about 17 feet out, I think LeBron would shoot a higher percentage. LeBron would make more from three, Wade would hit more elbow jumpers, and probably a push from the baseline.

Not trying to take anything away from Wade, as he is a top 5 NBA player, but remember, Miami has a much better supporting cast and Wade doesn't get doubled as much as LeBron. As you saw last night, and this whole series, LeBron is coached by an inept coach that leads to LeBron getting off alot of tough shots. Teammates repeatedly passing to him with 3 on the shot clock and him 23 feet away doesn't help either.

Another post:

Hmm, let's see. At 22 years of age, he's averaged 26.7 pts, 6.7 Rebs, and 6.4 assits a game for his career. I believe him and Oscar Robertson are the only players to average 26-6-6 over their first 3 years of their career. He also got his team to the NBA finals, as their marquee player, at the age of 22. He scored 29/30 points to end a conference finals game, willing his team to a 2 point victory, at th age of 22. He scored the last 25 points of an East Conf finals game, at the age of 22. The year before he came to teh Cavs, they won 17 games. Now, in his 4th year, he took them to the NBA finals, at the age of 22!

************

I don't see Wade being better in "every aspect of the game", whether it be statistically or unmeasureable like being the better team player.

[TheRook]

So your saying that Bron is a better free throw shooter? What about a better assist to turnover ratio?? What about better 3pt shooter?? What about Better TEAM player?? Was it DWade fault that he got drafted by the heat and bron got picked by the Cavs?? When I say Wade is a better ALL AROUND player I mean in every aspect of the game.. If you cant see that.. Then I guess you never will..

See I love this...cause your so moronic at times that I can bait you into shit like this.

Lets see....in 4 years

Games:
Wade 264
James 316

PPG
Wade 23.8
James 26.7

FG%
Wade 48%
James 46%

FT%
Wade 77%
James 73%

Rebounds per game
Wade 6.3
James 6.8

Assists per game
Wade 6.4
James 6.4

Steals per game
Wade 1.7
James 1.8

Blocks per game
Wade 0.8
James 0.8

Turnovers per game
Wade 3.8
James 2.7


So go ahead and tell me again how much better Wade is then James as an overall player, and I'll again provide you with fact after fact telling you otherwise.

[TheRook]

Some stuff I posted on another thread about this same ridiculousness:

Interesting that someone else brought up how they'd take Wade over LeBron for some reason. In the SI I got in the mail yesterday, they polled NBA players the same thing, and I think it was 72% that said LeBron. One would think they would have a good perspective to pick.

I don't know about Wade being the better shooter either. Here are both of their FG% the last 3 years:

Wade
47.8, 49.5, 49.1

LeBron
47.2, 48.0, 47.6

Slight advantage for Wade. Now from 3:

Wade
28.9, 17.1, 26.6

LeBron
35.1, 33.5, 31.9

A little more of an advantage for LeBron there.

Now FTs:

Wade
76.2, 78.3, 80.7

LeBron
75.0, 73.8, 69.8

Edge to Wade, and it certainly isn't good that LeBron is regressing there.

However, if you had each player taking 10 three point shots from 5 points around the arc, 25 from each elbow, and 25 from each baseline about 17 feet out, I think LeBron would shoot a higher percentage. LeBron would make more from three, Wade would hit more elbow jumpers, and probably a push from the baseline.

Not trying to take anything away from Wade, as he is a top 5 NBA player, but remember, Miami has a much better supporting cast and Wade doesn't get doubled as much as LeBron. As you saw last night, and this whole series, LeBron is coached by an inept coach that leads to LeBron getting off alot of tough shots. Teammates repeatedly passing to him with 3 on the shot clock and him 23 feet away doesn't help either.

Another post:

Hmm, let's see. At 22 years of age, he's averaged 26.7 pts, 6.7 Rebs, and 6.4 assits a game for his career. I believe him and Oscar Robertson are the only players to average 26-6-6 over their first 3 years of their career. He also got his team to the NBA finals, as their marquee player, at the age of 22. He scored 29/30 points to end a conference finals game, willing his team to a 2 point victory, at th age of 22. He scored the last 25 points of an East Conf finals game, at the age of 22. The year before he came to teh Cavs, they won 17 games. Now, in his 4th year, he took them to the NBA finals, at the age of 22!

************

I don't see Wade being better in "every aspect of the game", whether it be statistically or unmeasureable like being the better team player.

Nice apples...was posting some of the same FACTS for Tmac to decifer.

[Three Jack]

See I love this...cause your so moronic at times that I can bait you into shit like this.

Lets see....in 4 years

Games:
Wade 264
James 316

PPG
Wade 23.8
James 26.7

FG%
Wade 48%
James 46%

FT%
Wade 77%
James 73%

Rebounds per game
Wade 6.3
James 6.8

Assists per game
Wade 6.4
James 6.4

Steals per game
Wade 1.7
James 1.8

Blocks per game
Wade 0.8
James 0.8

Turnovers per game
Wade 3.8
James 2.7


So go ahead and tell me again how much better Wade is then James as an overall player, and I'll again provide you with fact after fact telling you otherwise.

Pretty even stats, not much difference...I would take both on my team but I would prefer the 6'6", 250 lb manchild. Better equipped for the long haul.....

[Three Jack]

In the SI I got in the mail yesterday, they polled NBA players the same thing, and I think it was 72% that said LeBron. One would think they would have a good perspective to pick.

.

THANK YOU! Finally someone else saw the same piece I have referred to a couple of times! See post 13 in this thread!

[TheRook]

THANK YOU! Finally someone else saw the same piece I have referred to a couple of times! See post 13 in this thread!

I saw it, and forgot to point that out.

Your right though....it should be taken into effect.

[soonerbud]

UNTIL your Savior...the great overhyped James WINS a title, he will, he is and until he does ALWAYS will be a step behind Dwade. You guys amaze me, Do you think these guys play all season for a trip to just "get to the FINALS". You act as if James is going to have multiple trips to the Finals. You know what fellas, NOTHING in life is that predictable. You ask an professional athlete who gets to the Finals if they just say "Oh NO big deal we will be here again"...ask Dan Marino that question, ask Charles Barkley that question, Karl Malone, John Stockton..........you go ahead and try to put Dwade "behind" Lebron, but he HOLDS the ONE thing Lebron is willing to miss the birth of his 2nd child (out of wedlock.....great ROLE model by the way..from a previous thread) a CHAMPIONSHIP!! Now you can go on and on about he is ONLY 22 and he will have multiple Championships by the time he is done. The hardest one to win is that first ONE. And Dwade has DONE THAT, Lebron hasn't and won't this year. And if you think that bunch of "reserves" called the Cavs will make it back next year.....it just shows your ability to be blinded by the hype. I love the standard you set though..........your GREAT before you WIN a thing. Makes it easy for your discussions about who is better!! Point is this, you play to WIN Championships, you play with what you got. Dwade did that and down 0-2 found a way to WIN. In two days, the Savior will be in the SAME predicament, lets see what he does to even the score. Because you can do stats till you die, but here is ONE you can't screw up......
Championships Dwade ONE Savior NONE
Champ MVP Dwade ONE Savior NONE
And it will be that way until Dwade wins again, because unless they GUT the Cavs, that team is winning NOTHING any time soon.................but I know he is ONLY 22 he will get lots of chances to win the FINALS....dreamers!!