Who Has the Best 1-2 Punch in Baseball?

[wayne1218]

A lot more than you do buddy!

Than why are you the ONLY one here who agrees with yourself? I'm pretty confident i'm on the right side of this one savage. Once a Sox fan ALWAYS a Sox fan for you buddy. Take the glasses off.

[Three Jack]

So can I assume that if you were the GM of the Sox and salary was not the issue and you were trying to win the WS for this season, that you also would trade Beckett for the SF pitchers before the trading deadline of 7/31-yes or not with no equivocation please.

For ONE YEAR, THIS YEAR ONLY, AND SALARY WAS NOT AN ISSUE, I would not trade Beckett for either of them straight up but would pack his bags and drive him to SF for both of them.

FROM THIS DAY FORWARD AND FOR THE REST OF THEIR CAREERS AND SALARY IS NOT AN ISSUE, you would be foolish not to trade Beckett for either one and without question for both.

[wayne1218]

Up until Theo took his leave some 3 yrs ago, I am a firm believer that Luccino was running the show...relaying on his team of baseball people but he was making the decisions and that is what prompted Theo's departure. You are so on the money about ownership but Savage can't see past his hard-on to see it.

And, keep in mind, Theo was not working when Beckett became a Red Sox!

savage has watched for 57 years and he is clueless. Screw Theo, does anyone remember how horrible the ownership was here year after year after year after year. They hired Theo and nothing goes through without the Sox "Board" approving it 1st. Don't bother telling him any of that though because you will ruin his Beckett/Theo mancrush!

[BearDown]

He is tied for 2nd in the AL in K's. He has had some tough losses this year early on but he is (8-2) in his last 10 decisions.

He has looked pretty good as of late I'll give you that, but last year was last year, and this year is this year. K's are K's, and wins are wins, and wins matter most. How good has Matt Cain been in his career? In 2006 he won 13 games (the most in his career so far) he also lost 12 games that same year with a 4.15 ERA. Outside of that the most games he's ever won was 8 but lost 14 games that year. All of a sudden he's 12 and 2 with a 2.27 ERA and he's voted OVERWHELMINGLY with Lincecum the best 1, 2 guy's in MLB? Sure he is, because he has the wins along with the ERA THIS YEAR. That's how people look at it, and that's how I looked at it. It's not what you have done, it's what you are doing, and 9 and 7 with a 3.79 ERA doesn't look like it's getting it done to me, along with a lot of other people who are not Boston fans.

[Three Jack]

savage has watched for 57 years and he is clueless. Screw Theo, does anyone remember how horrible the ownership was here year after year after year after year. They hired Theo and nothing goes through without the Sox "Board" approving it 1st. Don't bother telling him any of that though because you will ruin his Beckett/Theo mancrush!

So true....

[wayne1218]

He has looked pretty good as of late I'll give you that, but last year was last year, and this year is this year. K's are K's, and wins are wins, and wins matter most. How good has Matt Cain been in his career? In 2006 he won 13 games (the most in his career so far) he also lost 12 games that same year with a 4.15 ERA. Outside of that the most games he's ever won was 8but lost 14 games that year. All of a sudden he's 12 and 2 with a 2.27 ERA and he's voted OVERWHELMINGLY with Lincecum the best 1, 2 guy's in MLB? Sure he is, because he has the wins along with the ERA THIS YEAR. That's how people look at it, and that's how I looked at it. It's not what you have done, it's what you are doing, and 9 and 7 with a 379 ERA doesn't look like it's getting it done to me, along with a lot of other people who are not Boston fans.

You don't watch TV shows like Baseball tonight? It ain't just Boston fans. Everyone that talks about Jon Lester is in love with him and his stuff. Also, SF was the overwhelming number 1 yes, mainly because of Lincecum. Cain is having a great year but Lincecum is the best in baseball. He helped that vote.

Cain is (12-2) this year and he STILL has a losing (42-45) record for his career in the WEAK NL West. You seem to ignore that factor and you shouldn't. Today, tomorrow and in the fiture, i would take Lester over Cain for sure.

[savage1]

Than why are you the ONLY one here who agrees with yourself? I'm pretty confident i'm on the right side of this one savage. Once a Sox fan ALWAYS a Sox fan for you buddy. Take the glasses off.

As a long standing Sox fan I feel I am correct especially if the criterion is to win a WS for this year;
After the season is over and depending on what happens, I might change my mind or reassess.
As stated for this season the only acceptable pitcher I beforee the trrading deadline(again assuming it is pitchers for pitchers only and salary is a moot point) would probably be Halladay all things considered.
As we all know when it comes to many matters including gambling, the majority is wrong many times.

[savage1]

savage has watched for 57 years and he is clueless. Screw Theo, does anyone remember how horrible the ownership was here year after year after year after year. They hired Theo and nothing goes through without the Sox "Board" approving it 1st. Don't bother telling him any of that though because you will ruin his Beckett/Theo mancrush!

Screw Theo-in another post you saiud you "loved him." Make up your mind-which is it?

[Three Jack]

As a long standing Sox fan I feel I am correct especially if the criterion is to win a WS for this year;
After the season is over and depending on what happens, I might change my mind or reassess.
As stated for this season the only acceptable pitcher I beforee the trrading deadline(again assuming it is pitchers for pitchers only and salary is a moot point) would probably be Halladay all things considered.
As we all know when it comes to many matters including gambling, the majority is wrong many times.

But Savvy... What is Halladay's stats in All-Star games? Playoffs? How did Lincecum and Cain do in Inter-League? Cactus League?

Isn't that what you use for your criteria for deciding things...All-Star Games and Inter-League play???

[savage1]

Wayne-one of your problems in debating is that you call someone clueless and say other uncomplimentary things about the person when that person disagrees-that weakens your argument-I only respond to this when attacked.
Perhaps if you just stuck to your arguements without the namecalling, it might make your case a bit better

[ctt8410]

How good has Matt Cain been in his career? In 2006 he won 13 games (the most in his career so far) he also lost 12 games that same year with a 4.15 ERA. Outside of that the most games he's ever won was 8 but lost 14 games that year. All of a sudden he's 12 and 2 with a 2.27 ERA and he's voted OVERWHELMINGLY with Lincecum the best 1, 2 guy's in MLB? Sure he is, because he has the wins along with the ERA THIS YEAR.

Cain was the unluckiest pitcher in all of baseball for 2 years and was a poster child for why wins are a ridiculous stat to keep for pitchers. His run support was a ridiculously low 2.24 runs/start last year. If he were a starter for the Yankees, he would have won at least 15 games in 2007 and 2008.

[wayne1218]

Screw Theo-in another post you saiud you "loved him." Make up your mind-which is it?

I love having him here savage but if he left, See Ya'., He was just a part of ownership's plan, the ownership was not a part of theo's.

[wayne1218]

Wayne-one of your problems in debating is that you call someone clueless and say other uncomplimentary things about the person when that person disagrees-that weakens your argument-I only respond to this when attacked.
Perhaps if you just stuck to your arguements without the namecalling, it might make your case a bit better

I call it as i see it savage. If i think you are clueless, i'll say it. You have that same right.

P.S. This isn't about gambling savage so your little majority being wrong thought doesn't really apply.

[mavskidd02]

Minaya wouldn't do it because neither are hispanic!

That's great.

[kbsooner21]

Cain was the unluckiest pitcher in all of baseball for 2 years and was a poster child for why wins are a ridiculous stat to keep for pitchers. His run support was a ridiculously low 2.24 runs/start last year. If he were a starter for the Yankees, he would have won at least 15 games in 2007 and 2008.

I agree man. I love his stuff. I would love to have him on my team!