Senate Rejects Bid to Raise Minimum Wage

[TwoTonTony]

If you read the last line of my post, I wrote I don't know the answer. But I know taxing everything coming in from overseas isn't it. What do you then do about the higher unemployment? What do you do about the inflation caused by the higher prices? I assume you never shop at the "discount" stores and only buy 100% American-made products correct? When you need that blender, you don't got to Wal-Mart but to the mom and pop hardware store to pay double the price right? And if people thought Nike was selling their products for too much, they would go out of business for a lack of sales. Build a better shoe, market it, make it in America at the wages you suggest, pay the athletes to endorse, and see how you do. Build a better mousetrap.

can not do it......period!!! and we all are gulity of wanting the lowest price, yet we bitch about the way we acquire that low price....So if we all are willing to pay double lets all just buy american

[cd329]

Winner, your right, we should just pay people the same wage for the next 50 years I mean really whats the big deal if in 50 years that 5.15 an hour is really only worth about 50 cents an hour. Hell what more do those minimum wage workers want, especially since we allow them to work those jobs to begin with.
I have nothing else to say but wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, am baffled by some peoples logic.
Boy if there really is a God, am quite sure he is gonna punish all the greedy people who only think about themselves everyday. You know the me, me, me, me people.
I just hope all you guys that hate to raise anybody pay, also live by that same rule when it comes to you and your wifes paychecks. Really why do any of you need a pay raise?

[TwoTonTony]

Winner, your right, we should just pay people the same wage for the next 50 years I mean really whats the big deal if in 50 years that 5.15 an hour is really only worth about 50 cents an hour. Hell what more do those minimum wage workers want, especially since we allow them to work those jobs to begin with.
I have nothing else to say but wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, am baffled by some peoples logic.
Boy if there really is a God, am quite sure he is gonna punish all the greedy people who only think about themselves everyday. You know the me, me, me, me people.
I just hope all you guys that hate to raise anybody pay, also live by that same rule when it comes to you and your wifes paychecks. Really why do any of you need a pay raise?

I think if you are dependent on anyone to determine the wages you make you are not doing yourself any favors....This life is about making yourself marketable and options.....If you are marketable that alone gives you options and makes you in demand.....It is up to each and every one of us to do our best for ourselves and our families......I do not know if i am a me me me person....what i do know is that nobody has given me anything and if i did not worry about me, who would???

If you can prove to your employer that your value contributes to the bottom line (if it is for profit) then you should always be advancing......But lets face it...there are so many lazy fucks out there who could give 2 fucks about the company they work for and would jump ship at the sniff of a better offer.....So remember loyalty is a 2 way street.....Respect from both sides.....

But ulitmately the market determines the wages and prices....

[winner]

Winner, your right, we should just pay people the same wage for the next 50 years I mean really whats the big deal if in 50 years that 5.15 an hour is really only worth about 50 cents an hour. Hell what more do those minimum wage workers want, especially since we allow them to work those jobs to begin with.
I have nothing else to say but wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, am baffled by some peoples logic.
Boy if there really is a God, am quite sure he is gonna punish all the greedy people who only think about themselves everyday. You know the me, me, me, me people.
I just hope all you guys that hate to raise anybody pay, also live by that same rule when it comes to you and your wifes paychecks. Really why do any of you need a pay raise?

Why have you not answered anyones posts about the reasons for more money other then you think it's the "right" thing to do? You don't look at the bigger picture and how it will affect MANY areas. But since you "feel" it's the right thing to do, then we should. Anything to back that up other then your tears of hope? Ever get a raise based on production or companies performance? What do you do for a living?

[BackDoorCvr]

Backdoor, seriously are you home smoking crack or just brain washed by fox news? So what you are saying is that minimum wage should now stay 5.15 an hour forever. Doesnt matter that everything in society rises in price, the people working these low paying jobs should get the same paychecks for the next 50 years. Really i want some of the stuff you are smoking, must be really good. How could you make a statement like that and go look yourself in the mirror? This has nothing to do with being noble, it has to do with paying a person a fair amount of money for the job they perform. You make it sound like i just want to raise the salary of every minimum wage worker to 20 bucks an hour. No, thats not what am talking about. What i mean is the minimum wage worker should be able to do his job and be able to afford to buy the same things he was able to buy 7 years ago. Its called keeping up with inflation, my God how can you not see that. Even social security raises peoples checks every year at the rate of inflation, to think one group should remain the same forever is unreal.
It will come to a point someday when all those people who go to those minimum wage jobs everyday that none of us would want to work, will decide screw this job, i havent gotton a raise in 20 years, i could make more money sitting at home collecting welfare and food stamps, why bother going to work?
Do you know the effects that would cause in this country? I know when that happens you will quit your current job and go flip burgers at burger king.
Man my head is pounding right now, just cant believe the thought process of some people.

I know you're having a hard time grasping the theory of free markets so bear with me. I'm not saying that people should make $5.15 forever at all. I never said that. They are only making $5.15 right now because the Government is saying that's all they have to be paid. If you eliminated the minimum wage right now and businesses were free to pay the lower tier of their employees whatever they felt fair what would happen? Business A might say their starting rate is $4.00 while Business B might say $4.50. Now, if no one is taking these jobs and they have to be filled they'll have to increase their wage until someone steps up and fills the positions. Maybe that point will be at $5.75, maybe $6.00. Who knows. Businesses who want to attract the better workers will pay a bit more and they'll have their pick over these workers knowing the more skilled workers will work more efficiently and thus save them money in the long run. That's how the free market works and is why you are paid what your salary is (unless you work for minimum wage). As it stands now, employers only have to pay $5.15. This artificial number only hurts those who it tries to help. I think your head is pounding because you can't grasp this concept. Your sole position is that people earning minimum wage should make more and the gov't should make them pay some arbitrary amount. What I am saying (and just about every other economist) is that the minimum wage law is a roadblock and does not allow the free market system to work effectively. It works well everywhere else in our economy. If you don't believe in free markets then there are other places to live where you'll be more comfortable. And if you think that if the minimum wage law is repealed employers will be paying people $3.00/hr then you are the one smoking something.

[BettorsChat]

[QUOTE=winner]

Bottom line is $$$$. That's why jobs go overseas and imports are at an all-time high. ANY politican trying to get elected or reelected would LOVE to run on a campaign promise of no outsourced jobs. But they can't make that promise b/c it's up to the business. Do you think if Toyota had the same pension to fund and payroll expenses as GM, they would have one of the top selling cars?

I know its about $$$, but that also equates to the Politicians

[winner]

[QUOTE=BettorsChat]

I know its about $$$, but that also equates to the Politicians

So it's safe to assume you and cd (and probably Savage) don't shop at Wal-Mart or Target to get those bargain-basement prices eh?

[TwoTonTony]

It is called Laissez-Fare and it means "what the market will bear"....Who knows since the labor pool is so tight and many people do not want this entry level positions, maybe (it should) drive the wages up....I know for instance in southern CT the fast food people make about $9-$10 an hour to start....Nobody wants these jobs....so they had to raise wages....So the economy is different for each sub-economy and regional economy.....However, if you live in an area where unemployment may be high and education is a minimum....the market may set the wage at $4.50......

[BettorsChat]

[QUOTE=TwoTonTony]

i do not believe that is correct....we have open borders in terms of trade.....We do not have to check with the government as long as it is non-tariffable....certain items are more heavily tariffed......Wal-Mart, Nike and such have no limitations....it is basically free trade and up to them to outsource to the supplier they see fit....

I know special interest groups are at work, but i do not believe it happens like that......In a free capitalistic market we are free to deal with who we please.....That is why we outsource so much these days.....

I am all for buying american, but america must get close to being competitve......

I really do not think politics is the reason we go overseas at all.....If it were American Politicians and their lobbyists would also be in on this.....

Are you kidding me? Politicians could put a tariff on outsourcing to keep more jobs here, but they don't because it would hurt their campaigns and re-elections.

The government put heavier import taxes on China not too long ago, because I believe it had something to do with China selling weapons or dealing with Iran in weapon making.

[BettorsChat]

How did the US get a surplus? Might it have been something to do with an overinflated stock market, and millions of people paying huge tax bills from their dividends from companies like Pets.com? The "wealth" created by a scandal-filled stock market created a huge source of revenue that led to a surplus. People didn't care of the tax bill they paid as long as their investments kept soaring.

You and 10dime are both Republicans and he says that the stock market is doing great right now. If that's the case then what happened to the surplus?

[TwoTonTony]

[QUOTE=BettorsChat]

Are you kidding me? Politicians could put a tariff on outsourcing to keep more jobs here, but they don't because it would hurt their campaigns and re-elections.

The government put heavier import taxes on China not too long ago, because I believe it had something to do with China selling weapons or dealing with Iran in weapon making.

that makes no sense....Their constituents are americans...Why would they vote to put people in office that source their jobs overseas??? dah???

[TwoTonTony]

You and 10dime are both Republicans and he says that the stock market is doing great right now. If that's the case then what happened to the surplus?

their happens to be a little spat in iraq that cost a few bucks....

[cd329]

Yes Tony my theory is a nice dream, but your idea is not a good one either, because what you are basically saying is that the American worker should work for less, so we can compete with other countries. We in America have differnt values and want more things in life then people in other countires want. You would have to change every person in society. Poeople in other countries are content with not having much in life and are happy if they can just put a meal on the table. Thats how people in other countries have been raised, we are not like that in America, so unless you are gonna completely change what America has been about, its not going to work.
What it appears you want to happen is that American workers work for such low wages, that they can no longer afford thier own homes, 2 cars in the driveway, t.v.s in every room, play stations and xboxes for the kids etc etc. Because in order to compete with other countries, you will need to convince all of us that we shouldnt have all of these things. So who in society will have the houses and nice things then? The rich will, because what you are suggesting is that America should just become a counrty of 2 classes of people rich and the poor. Its already happening and in 50 years,am sure the middle class will be wiped off the map.
Honestly after reading some of the posts in this thread, am convinced some of you would love to live in a country with a dictator, you would be in your glory, but only if you could be part of that dictatorship. This thread has really depressed me and have lost a little respect for some members of the human race.

[TwoTonTony]

You and 10dime are both Republicans and he says that the stock market is doing great right now. If that's the case then what happened to the surplus?

market has been on a 3 yr bull run, but it is still underwater if you were just getting in in 1999.....like me....ha ha!!!

[BettorsChat]

I was listening to Bob Brinker on moneytalk and was saying how comical the deficit is in comparison to the asset base in the us.....It is miniscule.....

You may be right about that because the middle class has many more people in it......It does no good to penalize the rich....if we do they will not risk capital to create jobs.....If they do well, we all do well......

I do not think the lower class puts in alot...they are a bigger drag than anything.......If someone is making 20K and are taxed at 28% if that it is like 5K.....

that is not alot of total dollars contributed......

I know wealthy guys who pay huge amounts......Most times there is no getting around it, even after all the deductions....If you are making cake ...you will be paying......

There have been years i have contributed a heck alot of money....

I can tell you one thing....being in business is great....but it is hard as hell and you risk alot of your life to make it.....While all your friends are making their 100K you are grinding it out on the hopes to make it in 5 years or so.....

Hence the risk reward ratio.....

I am assuming many folks here have never been self-employed or employed others byt the tone of things

It does no good to give the rich the biggest breaks either. Even if the rates were higher they would still have to pay. And as for not risking capital for the reward of more $ I don't believe that. The rich hold onto their money tightly and want more of it.