Lying manipulation- 8.3% unemployment...right

[10DimeBry]

Educate myself? In my eyes you're a fanatical lunatic. The last thing I would do is think that something you post is educational. Most of what you spew is blown out your ass or regurgitated bias based on bullshit. You come on here posting shit the majority don't read or give two shits about. The majority of your posts get no replies. Post something that isn't a biased piece of garbage written by a reputable source and maybe you'll get an modicum of respect. Your "sky is falling" song and dance is old and fortunately people of your ilk are in the minority.

Facts are facts and there isn't one thing I wrote above that isn't factual. Who are we repaying and when? We're NOT. And yeah, people making over $200k are having everything taken away from them aren't they? What a crock of shit. Try making them pay their fair share of the taxes that ALL of the middle class pays. Poor bastards get everything taken away from them. Those rich folk sure are hurting aren't they?

And yes I do believe every person in this fucking country needs health care. That is what's breaking us. The fact that they don't. Not the fact that someone is trying to make sure it happens. Talk about being OK with sucking on the gov't teet.

I will ask you like i asked monte....Define "FAIR SHARE"

20% in taxes
30% in taxes
40% in taxes
50% in taxes
60% in taxes

please answer!!!!

[Watchtower76]

first of kaz, what has umreb78 said that wasn't true, please explain?

2nd, i'm sick of everyone thinking your right or left, dem or rep, i don't give a shit who you are, i'm just looking out for everyone and giving them FACTS on what exactly is going on. And if i can save someone from getting shit kicked in their 401k, if i can tell someone that things are not as GREAT as they look, then what is wrong with that. All i see is umreb giving out true hard facts, but then you think everything is ok. Here are just some facts that came out today, lets see how you spin this...

#1
While hardly surprising to anyone who actually paid attention over the past two months to events in Greece (instead of just reacting to headlines) where among those on strike were the very tax collectors tasked with "fixing the problem", we now get a first glimpse of the sheer collapse in the Greek economy, which also confirms why Germany is now dying for Greece to pull its own Eurozone plug (predicated by a naive belief that Greece is firewalled as was discussed before. As a reminder Hank Paulson thought that Lehman, too, was firewalled on September 15, 2008). And what a collapse it is: according to just released data from Kathimerini, budget revenues lagged projections by €1 billion in the very first month of the year. "Revenues posted a 7 percent decline compared with January 2011, while the target that had been set in the budget provided for an 8.9 percent annual increase. Worse still, value-added tax receipts posted an 18.7 percent decrease last month from January 2011 as the economy continues to tread the path of recession: VAT receipts only amounted to 1.85 billion euros in January compared to 2.29 billion in the same month last year." This it the point where any referee would throw in the towel. But no: for Europe's bankers there apparently are still some leftover organs in the corpse worth harvesting. Unfortunately, at this point we fail to see how this setup ends with anything but civil war, as the April elections will merely once again reinstate the existing bloodsucking regime. We hope we are wrong

#2
MERKEL SAYS GREECE IN 'VERY COMPLICATED SITUATION'
MERKEL SAYS GREECE NEEDS FULL DISCLOSURE OF ECONOMIC SITUATION
MERKEL SAYS GREECE EURO EXIT WOULD HAVE 'INCALCULABLE' IMPACT
MERKEL SAYS JOINT DEBT ONLY PAPERS OVER COMPETITIVENESS GAPS

#3
As some may remember those long ago days of January, when the market was not still lost in the latest bout of QE-hopium induced euphoria, December sales missed expectations, following even more disappointing November sales, despite propaganda channel promises that the 2011 shopping season was the "strongest ever"... and yet, many were wondering where did the already cash-strapped US consumer procure the cash to shop as much as they did, even if it was well below a record level. Now we know: it was on credit. As the chart below shows, Non Seasonally Adjusted Credit in December 2011 exploded by $33 billion sequentially In December compared to November: the third highest in the past 18 years, and only second to August 2007, which just so happens was both the peak of the market, and the peak of the credit bubble. The SA chart shows pretty much the same: a surge in consumer credit in December, even if the bulk of it was non-revolving, or used for such purchases as offloading some of that GM channel stuffing, and paying for one's college education. What does this mean? Well, with at least 2 more years of ZIRP, the credit bubble is already back, and it is only uphill from here. US consumers will get increasingly more and more in debt as they use more debt to pay of credit card interest, leading to ever further cash injections to keep asset prices higher to give US consumers the illusion that they are wealthy, so they spend even more, and so on. Just as Bernanke is talking about QE, the US consumer is actually saying it is time to tightening. Needless to say, good luck with that. Congratulations Ben - by exterminating US savers, you have managed to reflate the consumer credit bubble as for the 4th month in a row, nobody is deleveraging, even as the US government continues to add about $140 billion in debt each month. The most epic credit bubble collapse ever is coming fast, and this one will be at ZIRP, which means that even the smallest rise in interest rates will finally and mercifully end it all. Yet an even more epic surge in prices may precede it as banks slowly but surely are forced to push excess reserves into circulation. All $1.6 trillion of them... compared to the $1 trillion of currency in circulation.

#4THIS ONE IS FOR YOU BW, read the last paragraph

The other other John Taylor (not the FX trader, nor the guitar player, but the "Taylor Rule" discoverer, which is at the base of all Fed monetary decisions), spoke on Bloomberg TV, and his message was certainly a far less optimistic one than that conveyed by the man charged with putting his rule into practice. "We could get into a situation like Greece, quite frankly. People have to realize it is a precarious situation. The debt is going to explode if we don't make some changes." What changes does Taylor recommend? Why the same that Bill Gross warned about yesterday - that ZIRP4EVA means a liquidity trap pure and simple, and the Fed needs to start rising rates: "the Fed has bought so much of the debt that people don't know how they're going to undo that. They pledged to have interest rates at zero until 2014, but people are saying how can they possibly do that when the economy picks up. This uncertainty had lead people to sit on all this cash. I think if the Fed gets back to the policy that worked pretty well in the '80s and '90s, we would be in much better shape." Ah yes, but the one thing, and only one thing that matters, and that is not mentioned at all, is what happens to the stock market when the Fed officially sets off on a tightening path. Actually make that question even simpler - will the drop in the S&P will be 30%, 40%, or any other greater mulitple of 10% thereof, considering that as we noted previously, the Fed and the other two central banks alone have injected over $2 trillion in just over a year. And about $10 trillion in the past 5. Calculate what the removal of this liquifity would do to stocks


#5 MUST READ
In the fiscal year 2011 and 2012 (starting October 1) and continuing through the date of the most recent BLS update or January 31, there have been 87 official work days. This is the period which we will define as YTD (fiscal year to date period) for 2012, and will use its matched equivalent for 2011 for comparative purposes.
In the 2012 YTD period, the US Treasury recorded personal income withholding tax revenue of $592.676 billion (source)
In the comparable period for 2011, beginning October 1, 2010 and continuing through January 31, 2011, withholding taxes were $592.984 billion (source)
In other words, the US Treasury collected $310 million more in tax withholdings in the first 4 months of fiscal 2011 than in the first 4 months of fiscal 2012.
Presented visually - the black bar shows the cumulative divergence between the fiscal 2011 and 2012 data series. Below zero, such as that on January 31, is bad.



Based on establishment survey data, the US started fiscal year 2011 (Sept 30, 2010) with 129,885,000 employed (source)
Based on establishment survey data, the US started fiscal year 2012 (Sept 30, 2011) with 131,694,000 employed (source)
Based on establishment survey data, at January 31, 2011, the US had 130,456,000 employed (source)
Based on establishment survey data, at January 31, 2012, the US had 132,409,000 employed (source)
Said otherwise, in the first 4 months of fiscal 2011 the US "created" 571,000 jobs; in the first 4 months of 2012, the US "created" 715,000 jobs.
More importantly, between January 31, 2011 and January 31, 2012 the US added 1,953,000 jobs.
And yet...

Over the same period, as shown above tax withholdings are actually trending lower in 2012 compared to 2011!
But that's not the kicker. This is:

The 130.456MM workers "employed" at January 31, 2011 created a total of $592.985MM in withholdings, or on average of $4,545.48 per worker over the first 4 months of the fiscal year 2011.
The 132.409MM workers "employed" at January 31, 2012 created a total of $592.675MM in withholdings, or on average of $4,476.09 per worker over the first 4 months of the fiscal year 2012.
Translation: based on the above, even as America was "creating" jobs, 2 million to be precise (and 2.5 million between Sept 30, 2010 and January 31, 2012), the government tax revenues created by these jobs actually declined in 2012 compared to 2011, on a per job basis, by roughly 1.5%!

[KazDog]

I will ask you like i asked monte....Define "FAIR SHARE"

20% in taxes
30% in taxes
40% in taxes
50% in taxes
60% in taxes

please answer!!!!

Have you been living under a rock? The wealthy in this country do not pay the same amount percentage wise in taxes that the middle class pay. Period. There's nothing more to say about that. They have been under taxed for a long time. It's why they vehemently oppose a flat tax.

But to satisfy you. A 15% flat tax across the board would solve a lot of problems. I have no problem with the bottom half and top half paying the exact same percentage with NO LOOPHOLES out of it.

[Watchtower76]

Have you been living under a rock? The wealthy in this country do not pay the same amount in taxes that the middle class pay. Period. There's nothing more to say about that. They have been under taxed for a long time. It's why they vehemently oppose a flat tax.

But to satisfy you. A 15% flat tax across the board would solve a lot of problems. I have no problem with the bottom half and top half paying the exact same percentage with NO LOOPHOLES out of it.

See this is a problem that i have, here i'm going to get taxed more and i've done nothing wrong, avg taxed around 35-40% of my checks go to state and fed, but now i'm going to get taxed more cuz buffet and all his f'n banking friends haven't paid shit cuz they have tax lawyers under scoring the tax code, that's the problem that i have.

I'd love to see how many people have been paying their fair share and now all of a sudden will have to pay 40-45% when they've all along paid what they should have. Why should i pay more? WHy doesn't buffet and gates pay 35% like everyone else?

Yes i could f'n move into a 700k home, but i still live in my 1968 rambler and didn't make the mistake of spending money i didn't have, but now i feel that i'm paying for everyone elses mistakes, debt and now it's my problem cuz i make money, it's B.S..

[KazDog]

first of kaz, what has umreb78 said that wasn't true, please explain?

It's all conjecture man....The market will crash unless Obama is out. A health care bill will bankrupt the country. We'll have to pay back the $6 trillion. People making over $200k are having EVERYTHING taken away from them and shouldn't be taxed but poor folk should be, somehow the unemployment numbers that continue to drop are just fictitious numbers drummed up to make Obama look good, whining about a ten day vacation paid for by tax payers as if no other president or their families took vacation, that somehow the $6 trillion in deficit dollars went to donors and allies. Etc etc....Complete and utter bullshit and conjecture.

[10DimeBry]

Have you been living under a rock? The wealthy in this country do not pay the same amount percentage wise in taxes that the middle class pay. Period. There's nothing more to say about that. They have been under taxed for a long time. It's why they vehemently oppose a flat tax.

But to satisfy you. A 15% flat tax across the board would solve a lot of problems. I have no problem with the bottom half and top half paying the exact same percentage with NO LOOPHOLES out of it.

the Dems dont want a fair or flat tax. I would love to see 15% tax for everyone. No exemptions. Problem is IRS would never allow that. All the lib tards in DC would be out of jobs.
IRS employs tens of thousands of ppl.

Problem is simple. The thing is.....Let's say you tax everyone equally at 15%. libs will scream that the poor cannot afford it. Im all for income tax of 15% regardless if you make $30,000 or $3,000,000 a year.

regardless how you look at it as of 2011 49% of the population pays ZERO $$$ in federal taxes. That to me is just wrong. I dont give a shit what their financial situation is. Why should 51% of us pay for things while the other 49% does not?

[KazDog]

the Dems dont want a fair or flat tax. I would love to see 15% tax for everyone. No exemptions. Problem is IRS would never allow that. All the lib tards in DC would be out of jobs.
IRS employs tens of thousands of ppl.

Problem is simple. The thing is.....Let's say you tax everyone equally at 15%. libs will scream that the poor cannot afford it. Im all for income tax of 15% regardless if you make $30,000 or $3,000,000 a year.

regardless how you look at it as of 2011 49% of the population pays ZERO $$$ in federal taxes. That to me is just wrong. I dont give a shit what their financial situation is. Why should 51% of us pay for things while the other 49% does not?

You have a problem with the bottom half not paying what everyone else does and I have a problem with the top 5% not paying anywhere close to their fair share.

And FWIW, I'm in the lower 50% bracket of income earners and I pay a helluva lot of taxes. I'm not sure where that lower 51% don't pay figure comes from, but tell me how I get out of paying taxes? Please. And share it so the majority of people on here and the majority of Americans can get out of paying taxes. That would be wonderful.

[10DimeBry]

You have a problem with the bottom half not paying what everyone else does and I have a problem with the top 5% not paying anywhere close to their fair share.

l.

there it is again. Fair Share


define fair share. What % is fair? and lets say the rich get taxed more or loopholes are closed. What term will you or other tax and spend socialists come up with 10 or 20yrs down the road when the $$$ get wasted and spent by our bloated govt and stupid social programs that fail and you come calling for more $$ from the rich? My point simply is....What is fair?? If you or anyone else could give me an EXACT figure that you deem "fair" I'm willing to discuss it. Thing is ....even if you got "fair share" taxes on the rich as i stated above some time down the road you will come crawling back wanting more. It never ends!!!

I'm not even among the wealthy. I'm middle class. I believe everyone pays to much in taxes. Rich and middle class both. All to support those who are lazy or uneducated.

[KazDog]

there it is again. Fair Share


define fair share. What % is fair? and lets say the rich get taxed more or loopholes are closed. What term will you or other tax and spend socialists come up with 10 or 20yrs down the road when the $$$ get wasted and spent by our bloated govt and stupid social programs that fail and you come calling for more $$ from the rich? My point simply is....What is fair?? If you or anyone else could give me an EXACT figure that you deem "fair" I'm willing to discuss it. Thing is ....even if you got "fair share" taxes on the rich as i stated above some time down the road you will come crawling back wanting more. It never ends!!!

I'm not even among the wealthy. I'm middle class. I believe everyone pays to much in taxes. Rich and middle class both. All to support those who are lazy or uneducated.

Awe. Poor DImer. Worried about some guy barely putting food on his plate, but dammit, he's all for the top 5% not having to pay taxes. I gave you what the fair share I thought should be. But it won't happen because the RICH, not the Libs, don't want it to happen. Why should they? They never have paid anywhere near what the majority in this country pays. But hey, keep on pulling for those bizillionaires and maybe it'll trickle down to the rest of us.

And why don't you answer my question. How do I get out of paying taxes, since your genius claim that the lower 51% don't pay any taxes. According to you, 150 million people don't pay federal income taxes. I'm in the 150 million and I have a whole bunch of people I know who are too and I'd love to find out how I can get out of paying taxes.... Explain to everyone how we can go about doing that???

[BigWeiner]

Does Mitt Romney pay his fair share?

[KazDog]

Tell us Dimer, how it is that 5% or less of the population owns 90% of all the wealth in this country? Tell us how that is somehow equitable, meanwhile, you'll continue to pull for less taxes for those poor rich folk who are having "everything taken away" from them. Poor ol' rich folk don't have anything to show for their "hard" work.

You also said on here a few weeks back that unions were destroying this country and that's why companies are going oversees for cheaper labor. Funny, according to this NY Times article, http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/business/22union.html .... unions are at a 70 year low. But yet companies are enjoying some of their greatest profits ever. Tell us more about that equality, would ya Bry?

[10DimeBry]

Tell us Dimer, how it is that 5% or less of the population owns 90% of all the wealth in this country? Tell us how that is somehow equitable, meanwhile, you'll continue to pull for less taxes for those poor rich folk who are having "everything taken away" from them. Poor ol' rich folk don't have anything to show for their "hard" work.

You also said on here a few weeks back that unions were destroying this country and that's why companies are going oversees for cheaper labor. Funny, according to this NY Times article, http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/business/22union.html .... unions are at a 70 year low. But yet companies are enjoying some of their greatest profits ever. Tell us more about that equality, would ya Bry?

unions have destroyed this country. Also the over regulation.
Have you ever tried to fill out a permit for a Liquor license? Or god for bid a firearm? The mandatory paper work is insane and can be hundreds of pages long. Not to mention the dollars it costs to obtain a license.
All done by govt.

PS who still reads the liberal times?

Also as i've said all along. Life aint fair GET A JOB!!!!!

[10DimeBry]

Does Mitt Romney pay his fair share?

without a doubt 100%!!!

If you bothered to look into it and not just be lead blindly by the liberal media you would know such.

I'll make this real simple for ya.

Capital gains aka investment profits are taxed at 15%

Income is what you earn from working taxed at whatever tax rate you are in based on what you earn.

PS Kerry,the kennedy's,biden,pelosi,Reid,buffet and all the rest are wealthy and pay capital gains as well. If you think im lying go look it up and get back to me

[jcindaville]

Does Mitt Romney pay his fair share?

For 2011, Romney estimates that he will pay about $3.2 million, for an effective rate of 15.4*percent. That’s in line with his earlier estimates, but sharply lower than the rates paid by President Obama and Romney’s closest Republican rival, Newt Gingrich.

[BigWeiner]

For 2011, Romney estimates that he will pay about $3.2 million, for an effective rate of 15.4*percent. That’s in line with his earlier estimates, but sharply lower than the rates paid by President Obama and Romney’s closest Republican rival, Newt Gingrich.

I know he's not doing anything illegal etc etc, those Bush taxes cuts really hooked him up, but he's gonna get killed for being so wealthy while so many are struggling. Having money in the Cayman Islands will just make things worse. Its gonna be a landslide.