fringe right winged neocons the reason i left the republican party 5 here

[kbsooner21]

Kb it is gettin old embarrassing u. Look at your post #115 where u say I "never answer any of your valid questions". Were u taken out of context there or something. I answer all questions. As usual like many others don't like the answers so u can't see em.

Embarrassing me huh? Wow, you must be proud of yourself "embarrassing" me about politics on a gambling website

[vitterd]

Embarrassing me huh? Wow, you must be proud of yourself "embarrassing" me about politics on a gambling website

U should be embarrassed about not knowing your own words. Nothing to do with politics.

[Watchtower76]

[QUOTE=Jamaicanman;1829249]WT.

You seem to be a man of the numbers and common sense. Taking emotions out of it. Do you think there is a concerted effort on the part of China to destroy US economy by eventually dumping US debt, if even at a loss, to ti[ the US over? Or do you think China relies too much on exports for their own economy's survival that they buy as a hedge to keep exports flowing?

Hey JM, funny that this came out today, but read the last paragraph in this article, and i totally agree with the first video about how were headed for the greatest recession. Yet with all the stimulaus, with all the TRILLIONS in bailouts, TAX incentives, "cash for clunkers" the best that could be said for the market in the mid -2010 was at least the worst hadn't happened...and i'll finish it by saying "the worst hadn't happened YET"

Fund My Mutual Fund: [Video] Gerard Celente - The Anti Kool Aid

but the last paragraph says

The irony, of course, is that while America defeated Soviet Communism and won the Cold War, perhaps our greatest threat today comes from China and its booming state-controlled economy.

[Watchtower76]

Jman if obama sat in a classroom for 7 mins while being attacked you would have blasted him to no end.

That's the crazy thing about right wingers. They sound disappointed that the terrorists attempts were not successful. There were idiotic attempts. Guess what? When u live in a free society if u have people willing to kill themselves to kill others it can be very difficult to stop

We also had anthrax attacks under bush that were considered terror attacks that right always seems to forget

Hey Vitterd,

I will say, anyone who became president was in trouble, just like i thought anyone following clinton (dot com era) was in for a doozy as well cuz you can't keep this market up on something that's fake. But i'm more upset with Obama when he told us about (CLEARITY) would love to see what the fed has on there books (hence why ron paul is trying his damnest to get it out to the public), just like those 8 questions i sent earlier to ask Tim G, also how they handled the banking industry, how he's handled this oil spill, how he handled the Health care bill, which to add, is by far the worst thing this country could possibly do.

Instead of implementing such a stupid program, make it more affordable to those who don't have it, maybe even help them out of a year or two or what ever, but to switch over the entire system is absolutly retarded and embarrassing in my eyes.

I was excited for a new face in the office, but knowing what i know now, and watching him try to spend his way out of a recession that we've never seen before is just dumb. I personally don't think history can help us out of this current situation because everyone has a house (underwater) credit cards (can't pay them cuz credit was handed out free) Vehicle/s and yet they've watched there dream fade while this admin spends the tax payers money to help out his administrated friends.

i by all means don't know what the answer is, but i don't think adding another gov't ran company (heath care) without understanding about the concequences is correct, the ramifications will be greater then anyone would ever realize until its in our face. Why not fix Social Sec? Medicare or Medicaid...

AND YOU KNOW WHAT THE KICKER IS V,

we haven't even began to bailout our own STATES...what about california giving out IOU's for tax returns, what about nevada, michigan or any other state...they are more worried about saving FRE, FNM, C or AIG then to spend those billions on helping out our own states. Jesus this is another thing NO one, and i repeat NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT...

man when dubai missed on there debt payment sent shock waves around the financial markets, well fyi california alone is like 10-20% and has a hell of a bigger problem then a city that tries to make an palm tree island out of the oceans sand...surprised the u.s.a aren't part of that amazing idea

but just food for thought, stop worrying about health care, and all the banks, and worry about the avg. joe and the states, because guess where the next wave of layoffs will be coming, it will be from the state and local gov'ts and i heard it's like 500,000 people

[husker]

Hey Vitterd,

I will say, anyone who became president was in trouble, just like i thought anyone following clinton (dot com era) was in for a doozy as well cuz you can't keep this market up on something that's fake. But i'm more upset with Obama when he told us about (CLEARITY) would love to see what the fed has on there books (hence why ron paul is trying his damnest to get it out to the public), just like those 8 questions i sent earlier to ask Tim G, also how they handled the banking industry, how he's handled this oil spill, how he handled the Health care bill, which to add, is by far the worst thing this country could possibly do.

Instead of implementing such a stupid program, make it more affordable to those who don't have it, maybe even help them out of a year or two or what ever, but to switch over the entire system is absolutly retarded and embarrassing in my eyes.


i by all means don't know what the answer is, but i don't think adding another gov't ran company (heath care) without understanding about the concequences is correct, the ramifications will be greater then anyone would ever realize until its in our face. Why not fix Social Sec? Medicare or Medicaid...

i completely agree!!!

[husker]

Hey Vitterd,

I personally don't think history can help us out of this current situation because everyone has a house (underwater) credit cards (can't pay them cuz credit was handed out free) Vehicle/s and yet they've watched there dream fade while this admin spends the tax payers money to help out his administrated friends.

AND YOU KNOW WHAT THE KICKER IS V,

we haven't even began to bailout our own STATES...what about california giving out IOU's for tax returns, what about nevada, michigan or any other state...they are more worried about saving FRE, FNM, C or AIG then to spend those billions on helping out our own states. Jesus this is another thing NO one, and i repeat NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT...

man when dubai missed on there debt payment sent shock waves around the financial markets, well fyi california alone is like 10-20% and has a hell of a bigger problem then a city that tries to make an palm tree island out of the oceans sand...surprised the u.s.a aren't part of that amazing idea

but just food for thought, stop worrying about health care, and all the banks, and worry about the avg. joe and the states, because guess where the next wave of layoffs will be coming, it will be from the state and local gov'ts and i heard it's like 500,000 people

i don't agree that most people are "undewater" with bills. some are, but the govt shouldn't reward people's bad judgements and they shouldn't have done it with busnesses ether.

the state's, counties, and towns shouldn't be bailed out ether for years of bad spending habits. program cuts and laying people off are good things and are getting spending on unnecessary things under controll.

no pain, no gain. learn from your mistakes.

[Watchtower76]

And here we go again,

Thanks Obama and everyone associate with our TAX MONEY, help more banks with our money, shit like this goes under the table ONCE AGAIN


Failure Of Obama's Pet ShoreBank Costs Taxpayers $368 Million, Which Immediately Goes To Goldman Sachs Among Others
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 08/20/2010 18:41 -0500

American ExpressBank of AmericaCitigroupFederal Deposit Insurance CorporationFordGE CapitalGoldman SachsIllinoisJPMorgan ChaseMorgan StanleyWells Fargo


After a lengthy attempt to bail out his pet bank, ShoreBank Chicago, Illinois, which included several alleged armtwisting episodes by the administration, the president has finally let the bank die (with its assets valued at about 50% of face). Yet instead of going to hell, it was immediately resurrected with a bevy of new owners, among them Goldman, Morgan Stanley, and BofA, all of whom received nearly $400 million in taxpayer money for their "generosity" to keep the bank zombified even in the afterlife.

Some details on the bank from the FDIC press release: "As of June 30, 2010, ShoreBank had approximately $2.16 billion in total assets and $1.54 billion in total deposits." In other words, the value of ShoreBank's assets was well below 70% of face, if the bank was undercapitalized at its current deposit level. Continuing: "The FDIC and Urban Partnership Bank entered into a loss-share transaction on $1.41 billion of ShoreBank's assets. Urban Partnership Bank will share in the losses on the asset pools covered under the loss-share agreement. The loss-share transaction is projected to maximize returns on the assets covered by keeping them in the private sector. The FDIC estimates that the cost to the Deposit Insurance Fund (DIF) will be $367.7 million." Netting the incremental cost of taxpayer DIF subsidies, means that the real value of assets was ($1.54 billion - $367.7 million)/$2.16 billion or 54% of face. And this is a bank that Obama wanted to keep alive at all costs? And just who is this "Urban Partnership Bank" that is receiving a taxpayer subsidy of $368 million? Why all the usual suspects of course: "The significant investors in Urban Partnership Bank are American Express Company, Bank of America, Citigroup, Ford Foundation, GE Capital Equity Investments, Inc., Harris Bank, the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, JPMorgan Chase & Co., Key Community Development Corp., Morgan Stanley, Northern Trust Corporation, PNC Investment Corp., State Farm Mutual Automobile, The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc., and Wells Fargo & Company." And so the old "out-of-one-taxpayer-pocket-and-into-another-Wall-Street-pocket" game continues, only this time it includes administration darling banks that should have been liquidated long ago.

By keeping ShoreBank artificially alive for far longer than it deserved, the assets amortized far more than they would have had it been taken into receivership by a non-conflicted bank, and thus the final cost to taxpayers would have been far less.

As it stands, Goldman and 11 other banks are receiving a multimillion dollar gift to conduct a portfolio liquidation run-off of ShoreBank's assets, while merely making sure existing deposits are serviced. At least we now know just how truly angry at Wall Street Obama is.

The funniest bit: this is how efficient the auction process was (from the press release):

FDIC received only one bid, which included an asset discount of $146 million and a 0.5 percent deposit premium. This saved the FDIC’s insurance fund $250 million to $334 million over liquidation.

This also padded the top line of the abovementioned banks by $368 million off the bat, over and above whatever they make as they collect the proceeds from the portfolio run off.

In other words, Wall Street's core banks could have come up with any bid they wanted, and the FDIC would have had no choice but to fund the difference, because the alternative would be, gasp, so much scarier. Hm, where have we heard this before.

Full press release (link) and supplemental information (link) to this latest taxpayer gift to Wall Street's kleptocrats.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/fai...s-goldman-sach

[Watchtower76]

i don't agree that most people are "undewater" with bills. some are, but the govt shouldn't reward people's bad judgements and they shouldn't have done it with busnesses ether.

the state's, counties, and towns shouldn't be bailed out ether for years of bad spending habits. program cuts and laying people off are good things and are getting spending on unnecessary things under controll.

no pain, no gain. learn from your mistakes.

See i think it's way worse then what people are saying, but by all means the gov't shouldn't help others with bad judgements, but from a state's bailout, i will say i'd be more happier seeing my tax money go towards states and help the avg joe, instead of watching my money go to wall street and keep up those worthless, bankr. companies like C, AIG, FRE, FNM, GM and the list goes on and on and on which will total over 1 trillion dollars on FRE and FNM alone. It's frustrating that could have solved every state in the U.S out of debt, but 1 company and his sister company will now get our money which is stupid that's all i'm saying. By all means i think it's stupid, but we have to help our own states out, at least it will be a better understanding (sometimes) but at least it's not a company that was out to screw every homeowner and give them a loan if you have two feet and are breathing. Then you qualify them for something that they won't even be able to come close to paying off, but yet we help that company out, this world is jacked up

[husker]

See i think it's way worse then what people are saying, but by all means the gov't shouldn't help others with bad judgements, but from a state's bailout, i will say i'd be more happier seeing my tax money go towards states and help the avg joe, instead of watching my money go to wall street and keep up those worthless, bankr. companies like C, AIG, FRE, FNM, GM and the list goes on and on and on which will total over 1 trillion dollars on FRE and FNM alone. It's frustrating that could have solved every state in the U.S out of debt, but 1 company and his sister company will now get our money which is stupid that's all i'm saying. By all means i think it's stupid, but we have to help our own states out, at least it will be a better understanding (sometimes) but at least it's not a company that was out to screw every homeowner and give them a loan if you have two feet and are breathing. Then you qualify them for something that they won't even be able to come close to paying off, but yet we help that company out, this world is jacked up

i don't think ANYONE should be bailed out, and i said that when bush put this whole snowball in motion. even though most of the banks have payed back the money with interest. notice obama wants to take credit for that.

you could say the states are screwing people also with constant tax increases that most people can't do anything about, especially the ones on the low end of the income bracket. then there's the hidden taxes that go up without people knowing, at least companies put it somewhere in the fine print. there isn't even any fine print to read that lists all the hidden govt taxes. co's and govt are both equally screwing people at the lower end of the income bracket. politicians are just pointing at big co's to diflect peoples outrage from being dirested at themselves. bailing them out only delays what has to happen anyway, cutting spending. it's just flushing money down the toilet.

[husker]

See i think it's way worse then what people are saying,

i believe the economy is worse for all the reasons you have mentioned before. i have said the same things in the past, like the great govt ponzi scheme and rigged low interest rates.
one day the chickes will have to come home to roost.

[Watchtower76]

I do see why in the end people do laugh at your theories. There have been guys like u thru all of history. World is coming to an end. The govt is plotting evil in the basement of the white house.

I will await your response on the answers I gave u on what obama has done for the average joe

How did Obama's first time home owners tax credit go Vitterd, just like cash for clunkers...IT WAS A F"n WASTE? How are morgage rates the LOWEST ever and things like this come out today? Obama and his admin are WASTING our tax payers money to try and prop up not only the stock market but our homes as well, but today it finally comes true, THEY CAN'T SPEND MONEY to get out of this recession we are currently in, let time get us out, NOT use the avg joe's cash

Hello Double DIPression my old friend. 3.83 million sales on 4.65 million expectation. Previous 5.37 million revised to 5.26. The chart says it all: lowest sales since May 1995, months supply largest since 1999.

Existing Home Sales Plunge 27.2%, Record Drop, Trounce Expectations Of 13.4%, Lowest Number Since May 1995 | zero hedge

Real Estate Market Plunges - 24/7 Wall St.

[Watchtower76]

i believe the economy is worse for all the reasons you have mentioned before. i have said the same things in the past, like the great govt ponzi scheme and rigged low interest rates.
one day the chickes will have to come home to roost.

those low interest rates are sure helping the economy, nice existing home sales today...

[Watchtower76]

Many are confused why housing has not surged with these sort of interest rates. We now have record affordability (you can buy much more house at 4.6% versus 6.6% mortgages) - so where are the sales? I think the answer is clear - so few Americans that are not already home owners, have enough savings to actually be able to generate even a 3.5% down payment. Only when the government stepped in and created a 'tax credit' - that was morphed by many states into a de facto 'down payment replacement' were we able to create the marginal buyer. That's because when we create bubbles as we did in 2004-2007, we already brought forward all the organic buyers that should have been appearing in 2009-2010. Therefore, with a dearth of demand we "needed" (per government belief) to create new buyers and the only way to bring the 2011-2013 vintage of buyer forward a few years was to hand them taxpayer money in an almost no risk proposition (to them).

This is the same game that GM, Ford, and Chrylser did for a decade. How did that turn out again?

The tax 'credit' (it was supposed to be credited on a tax return) was turned into a de facto "down payment replacement" by many states, and hence many who have no skin in the game now are new home owners on the backs of the taxpayers. (everyone on Wall Street applauded because it made home sales figures jump!) In due time I expect many of these people to default in 2012-2014. They have been handed a risk free poker piece in fact... they used the taxpayers money in lieu of down payment and get to live in a home and 'try it out'. If there is some big boom in prices they win. If home prices fall, they walk in 'strategic default' ... and get to live 'rent free' in said home (because truly they are renters, the term home ownership for what has been pulled off the past year is a joke) for 18-30 months before the banks get around to kicking them out. Of course by then the Congress and administration will try more desperate measures to keep people in homes so they most likely will be handed more tax money because 'the banks tricked them' into a mortgage.* This is the new America. Instead of stopping the bleeding and returning to some form of health in a few years from now, after the 2004-2007 vintage of home buyer went through the process, we have kicked the can down the road and created a new generation who we'll be paying for in the next cycle. Rinse. Wash. Repeat.

*of course all this taxpayer money given away to those "duped by the banks into buying homes they could not afford" is failing at a rate of 50%. [Mar 26, 2010: Half of US Home Modifications Default - Again] [Dec 8, 2008: More than Half of Homeowners with Modified Loans are Back in Trouble] And the latest data as of last week shows that half the people in HAMP have dropped out - most cannot prove their income. There is a reason it's called a liar loan - but I hope you enjoyed the taxpayer's money in the meantime.

just try to imagine how bad the housing market would be with normal rates (say 6-6.5%), normal lender requirements for down payment (say 5%), and no bribery from government to buy homes. It is truly astonishing what numbers we see now considering the population growth.

[Jamaicanman]

What sucks is there really is no answer, imo, about housing until the employment scene betters. Rates are at an all-time low, yet most people can't get qualified to refi b/c of a lack of equity or proof of income. And I am sure many renters are staying pat while they worry about their own work situation.

You can dump tons of homes on the market by foreclosure, but the only thing that does is lower prices further. Then instituitions come in and buy all the houses. Sell them, and lower prices even more.

I've grown SO tired of the people who talk about this "was forced on me by the evil lenders" argument. Personal responsibility. Were some people duped? Yep, but that happens EVERY day in EVERY industry. Not wide spread.

People went into the scene knowing full well they couldn't afford it and didn't care. Then others yanked cash out of their houses and treated their home like an ATM. What happens to that cash that line their pockets now that they are "underwater"? Not everyone is underwater b/c of poor timing of their purchase or the evil lenders.

[PhilJr]

I answer all questions.

I know you have been reading this thread and I think Watchtower is asking you some here