Obama approval rating dropping like a stone

[Jamaicanman]

Hence the summit. Not so sure about disastrous. It has to start somewhere, and nothing wrong with the US leading the way.

KAZ

I don't think the goals of getting everyone on board were met at the summit. I also don't think that the US should shoulder the full responsibility as the guinea pig "leading the way" if our contribuition nets out to be a drop in the bucket for helping.

[KazDog]

So the ice caps have been in existence for 3 million years, and yet scientists are predicting that they will be almost completely gone in 20-30 years. That was quoted from Harolds story. "Others said that, even if quoted correctly, Dr Maslowski’s six-year projection for near-ice-free conditions is at the extreme end of the scale. Most climate scientists agree that a 20 to 30-year timescale is more likely for the near-disappearance of sea ice". Maybe more, maybe less. But I guess we're to assume that we humans had nothing to do with that.

[KazDog]

I don't think the goals of getting everyone on board were met at the summit. I also don't think that the US should shoulder the full responsibility as the guinea pig "leading the way" if our contribuition nets out to be a drop in the bucket for helping.

I dont agree. If we are the "standard" by which other countries look up to, then we should absolutely lead the way. And just because "some" countries weren't on board, such as countries from impoverished nations, doesn't mean other more notable polluting countries weren't.

KAZ

[ctt8410]

"Several years" of cooling is largely inconsequential. It's like going outside one day in December and it's 14 degrees and saying that disproves global warming.

The fact of the matter is that we know average temperatures have been on an upward trend that started a number of years after we developed the technology to actually measure these things (the mid-1800s) and we know carbon dioxide concentrations have been on a similar upward trend and we understand the science behind why this is happening.

As for man being no match for Mother Nature, is it better if we ignore these issues and act like they don't exist? It's true that the damage that's been done can't be reversed, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to slow down the train.

Instead of cutting and pasting from google, how about we actually argue the merits of what's being said here?

[Jamaicanman]

I dont agree. If we are the "standard" by which other countries look up to, then we should absolutely lead the way. And just because "some" countries weren't on board, such as countries from impoverished nations, doesn't mean other more notable polluting countries weren't.

KAZ

I think it was more then impoverished nations. Where is China, Russia, etc on this? Who would be charged with enforcing anything? Heck China wants to elbow in and get some of the "seed" money earmarked for those improverished nations.

[KazDog]

I think it was more then impoverished nations. Where is China, Russia, etc on this? Who would be charged with enforcing anything? Heck China wants to elbow in and get some of the "seed" money earmarked for those improverished nations.

Let's be real here. The US makes up a significant portion of the emissions worldwide. China and the US make somewhere around 50% of the emissions in somewhat equal amounts.

KAZ

[Jamaicanman]

Let's be real here. The US makes up a significant portion of the emissions worldwide. China and the US make somewhere around 50% of the emissions in somewhat equal amounts.

KAZ

I agree, but why then does China want to fall under the "developing" countries headline and get some of the money earmarked for other, poorer nations?

[KazDog]

I agree, but why then does China want to fall under the "developing" countries headline and get some of the money earmarked for other, poorer nations?

Not sure. But fuck them. We need to stop coddling China. The rest of the world wont coddle China and they will be responsible just like the US and other developed countries.

I haven't read that about China to be honest. Not saying it isn't true, because it sounds like something they would pull.

KAZ

[Jamaicanman]

Plus, what figures would be acceptable to everyone to use for emissions? Total or per capita? Completely different lists for both.

[KazDog]

Plus, what figures would be acceptable to everyone to use for emissions? Total or per capita? Completely different lists for both.

From what I've read, some are talking about per capita. But of course nothing has been settled yet. Long ways to go. The Obama convoy has actually rejected unrealistic compliance levels.

KAZ

[Jamaicanman]

Not sure. But fuck them. We need to stop coddling China. The rest of the world wont coddle China and they will be responsible just like the US and other developed countries.

I haven't read that about China to be honest. Not saying it isn't true, because it sounds like something they would pull.

KAZ

If China isn't coddled, who buys the US debt to finance ambitious agendas and wars?

[Jamaicanman]

From what I've read, some are talking about per capita. But of course nothing has been settled yet. Long ways to go. The Obama convoy has actually rejected unrealistic compliance levels.

KAZ

If per capita, China not even in top 80.

[KazDog]

If China isn't coddled, who buys the US debt to finance ambitious agendas and wars?

Simple...China needs us much more than we need them.

KAZ

[Jamaicanman]

Simple...China needs us much more than we need them.

KAZ

How would that work? We stop paying them interest ond tell them to "F" off on our debt to them? People here can deal with higher prices for imports a lot easier then we can afford to have China dump our debt and not buy anymore.

[KazDog]

How would that work? We stop paying them interest ond tell them to "F" off on our debt to them? People here can deal with higher prices for imports a lot easier then we can afford to have China dump our debt and not buy anymore.

I think you're going to the extreme. We've dealt with China with various hard line tactics in the past, but sometimes we coddle them. In this instance, we shouldn't be. They are equally to blame for emissions.

And you can't say we couldn't do without China, if that ever came to fruition.

KAZ