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Originally posted by BettorsChat
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Uhh...no shit. So would Obama, and so does every politician. It is kind of how you get elected. -
There's little question that GWB has been an awful President. The fact is, our entire national political system is so systemically flawed that it's impossible for us to ever elect a truly independent, rational thinking person to the Office. The costs associated with running a successful national campaign are so mind boggling that anyone who would be elected (and yes, including Obama) will, on the inauguration day, be indebted to some special interests (plural) and will ultimately repay the favors. IMHO, neither of our choices in November are worth a crap. In light of that, I'm looking for the one of these two jokers who will do the least harm.
I admire and respect John McCain for his service to the Country but on a Presidential level, he is a one trick pony (national security). How "confused" does a Presidential candidate have to be to state in his campaign that "I don't know a lot about the economy"? Duh! But, I do believe that if he were elected, he would fill his cabinet and Staff with people who do understand the issues that he doesn't.
On my scorecard, McCain is one trick pony ahead of Obama. Come on..this guy hasn't even served a full term in the Senate and he's qualified to lead the free world? Look, I admire Obama as an orator and his charisma cannot be questioned. Buth, then again, there have been many other very charasmatic leaders throughout history. If you google "charasmatic leaders" you'll hit on such names as JFK, Ronald Reagan, Ghandi, and Bill Clinton. But, also on that list are Fidel Castro, S. Hussein, Osama Ben Laden, and Adolph Hitler. (If you're tempted to accuse me of comparing Obama to Hitler, just grow up). My point is this. Charisma is a desirable trait, but it is neither inherently good nor bad. Charisma is a great trait if one is trying to sell his listeners on a good idea or policy. It can be a very dangerous thing if one is promoting bad ideas. The point I'm trying to make is that charisma or public speaking abilities should not be significantly determinant in who wins a Presidential election.
I have a bit of a hard time getting a handle on Obama's specific policy ideas because he has been so slow in publicly disclosing them. I spend a lot of time dealing with 20 somethings, most of whom support Obama. It continues to amaze me when I ask them what it is about Obama that they like. Easily, the two most common responses are "I like the way he's going to unify the Country. He will bring the Country together, and he'll change Washington". I remind them that lemmings, too, are a very unified breed...right up until the time they go over the cliff The second most common answer really surprises me. "I just think it's time we had an African-American President". Now these are white kids I'm talking about. But no, race is not an issue in this election. These kids' lack of any clue about what his Administration's policies might be just leaves me shaking my head. I suppose something my father said to me 40 years ago really is true. "If you're young and not liberal, you have no heart. If you're old and not conservative, you have no brain".
It's taken a long time to get to my basic point, and I know I've digressed, but here it is. I am a CPA / economist and have spent my career dealing with taxes and the economy. What pieces of Obama's economic policies he has discussed scare the hell out of me...and they should you too, regardless of your own income levels and economic stations. The historic Democratic position with respect to taxes and the economy is accurately described as fiscal liberalism (an Obama is the most liberal of them all). Their unspoken stance is that the American people are not capable of taking care of anything for themselves, so it is imperative that the federal government do it for them. In the interest of balance and fairness, it should be stated that during the GWB Administration, the Republican Party has taken the same position, so going back to my first point, we don't have any good choices here.
Obama will spend us even further to death, but even he realizes that he'll have to find some way to pay for a fraction (and that's all it would be is a fraction) of what will undoubtedly be a monster increase in entitlement spending.
So you know, I am NOT wealthy and I don't make a ton of money so my taxes wouldn't go up dramatically as a result of Obama's tax increases. But, that sure as hell doesn't mean that his plans to double the cap gains rate, increase the maximum marginal tax rates, and eliminate the cap on Social Security wages isn't a horrible idea for the Country, and for its citizens as a whole. It is a verifiable fact that EVERY time in modern history Congress has raised the tax rate on capital gains, the economy has gone into a recession within 18 months. YES, I do know that we're already in a recession and not one caused by a tax hike, but the point is that such an increase ALWAYS has a negative impact in the national economy. I can't imagine a worse time to enact such a change.
Even those people who have never paid capital gains tax in their lives are not insulated from the effects of such a policy. Whether its acknowledged or not, the people that Obama considers "wealthy" are the primary force that drives our economy. They create the new jobs...and, when their income declines, they eliminate existing jobs. The very idea of increasing taxes on the financially successful members of our society to "redistribute" this wealth to the less successful is, in our ultra PC society, now referred to as "restoring the middle class". In days gone by, people just called it "Socialism". Socialism (in its most refined form, known as "Marxism") and Capitalism are competing and mutually exclusive social ideologies. As lousy as our economy is right now, since there has never been a long-term sustainable Socialist society, I think I'll stick with what we've got. If his taxation ideas are indicative of the "way we're going to change Washington", I think I'll pass.
One more thought on the fact that neither of our two choices are any good. No question, we will have a Democratic House and Senate after November. The only thing scarier to me than an Obama in the White House is an Obama in the White House with only a rubber stamp in Congress. Given the poor choices we have available to us, I can honestly say that if the Congress were going to be Republican I might very well vote for Obama. A federal government that does NOTHING, in my view, would be preferable to one that does nothing RIGHT. In closing, CUT THE FEDERAL SPENDING... IN ENTITLEMENTS, IN IRAQ, AND EVERYWHERE ELSE... BEFORE RAISING ANYBODY'S TAXES ONE CENT.
If I were booking bets, I'd make the following prop:
If Obama is elected, between election day and the end of the year, the Dow will lose ___%. I make the O/U 35%.
Investors having unrealized gains will sell those stocks in order to preserve the 15% tax rate on their gains as opposed to paying 30% after Barack takes office. The massive sell / buy imbalance will produce a sell off that will rival Black Monday in '87...I'm not such an alarmist that I think we'll revisit '29, but you never know.Last edited by umreb78; 06-14-2008, 05:45 PM.Comment
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These threads were voted out in April.
3 day ban for the starter please.Comment
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McCain is a flip flopper and keeps company with POS just like himself.Comment
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Looks like you lost that bet. I think the dow rose 45%.Originally posted by umreb78 View Post
News Headlines"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." -Mark TwainComment
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I'm also waiting for Limbaugh to leave the country after HC was passedOriginally posted by grandmama View Post
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Can not wait for that buddy ...Originally posted by buddyluv1968 View PostI'm also waiting for Limbaugh to leave the country after HC was passed
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No link to the massive writedowns companies now taking b/c of the scam HC law? Shock,shock.Originally posted by grandmama View PostComment
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you love to eat up the fear they dish out to you every day. poor AT&T. why don't you explain what you're so afraid of to me...Originally posted by Jamaicanman View Post"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." -Mark TwainComment
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Originally Posted by umreb78
If I were booking bets, I'd make the following prop:
If Obama is elected, between election day and the end of the year, the Dow will lose ___%. I make the O/U 35%.
Investors having unrealized gains will sell those stocks in order to preserve the 15% tax rate on their gains as opposed to paying 30% after Barack takes office. The massive sell / buy imbalance will produce a sell off that will rival Black Monday in '87...I'm not such an alarmist that I think we'll revisit '29, but you never know.
[QUOTE=grandmama;1789772]Looks like you lost that bet. I think the dow rose 45%.
Not even close:
Dow November 4, 2008: Closed 9,625
Dow December 31, 2008: Closed 8,776
Difference: Down (849)
Dow actually dropped (849) points from election day to the end of the year. Not sure where you got the 45% rise dude.
Credibility is a huge factor when spouting "facts"Comment
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[QUOTE=Guns;1789807]Originally Posted by umreb78
If I were booking bets, I'd make the following prop:
If Obama is elected, between election day and the end of the year, the Dow will lose ___%. I make the O/U 35%.
Investors having unrealized gains will sell those stocks in order to preserve the 15% tax rate on their gains as opposed to paying 30% after Barack takes office. The massive sell / buy imbalance will produce a sell off that will rival Black Monday in '87...I'm not such an alarmist that I think we'll revisit '29, but you never know.
45%is what it rose in his first year in office.Originally posted by grandmama View Post"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." -Mark TwainComment
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45%is what it rose in his first year in office.[/QUOTE]
9,625 November 4, 2008
10,172 January 22, 2010
+547 points from Election Day 2008 to his first full year in office January 22, 2010. Roughly 5.5%, not 45%Comment
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Kaz, why don't you just move to Europe? Seriously, I think you and your socialist views would be much more happy over there.Originally posted by KazDog View PostComment
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9,625 November 4, 2008Originally posted by Guns View Post
10,172 January 22, 2010
+547 points from Election Day 2008 to his first full year in office January 22, 2010. Roughly 5.5%, not 45%[/QUOTE]
guns, just look at the link and it is up 45% since his first day in office. take the election day out of it. FROM THE TIME HE STEPPED INTO THE OVAL OFFICE IT'S UP 45%."It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." -Mark TwainComment
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still waiting on you to respond to my question. I'll give you some time to watch more TV so you can get your answer.Originally posted by Jamaicanman View Post"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." -Mark TwainComment
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