Trouble with Russia and Iran

[TwoTonTony]

I agree.....There has been no terrorist strikes on our homeland for a reason. Why would they need to strike us here when they can kill plenty of young boys right at home, in Iraq? What's the count up to now? Over 3000 dead American's on Iraq soil. No need to come here and get caught. They can plan all their killings right in the comfort of their own homes thanks to Bush's failed Iraq war efforts.

Bush has so many failures at this point. He was voted recently by scholars as the worst president in history. He's failed in Iraq. Failed badly during Katrina and post Katrina. Really failed on foreign policy. Took a federal deficit that was in black during the Clinton administration and drove it into the ground to the tune of over $400 billion. He recently vetoed a bill to give health coverage to children. The housing market is dead and may get a lot worse. Unemployment was at it's highest levels in 2003, since his father was in office.

But hey, the good news is that the wealthiest people in this country got a tax break.

Everyone knows the president has little to do with the stock market going up or down. It has to do with many other factors than what the president does or does not do. Greenspan has more to do with it than Bush. Everyone said that Clinton had nothing to do with the record levels the stock market rose to when he was in office.

So what else can you point to as his great achievements? Very, very little.....

KAZ

so you are blaming bush for the turn in the housing market???hmmmm....were you patting him on the back when houses were up 400% during his era and now are back down 20-30%...Still sounds like a big gain to me.....But it is relative to when you got in like the stock market and the bernake and cheap money has more to do with it than Bush.....You can't have it both ways.....

The housing market is cyclical.......it just is....And your average American is weak minded and borrows more than he can afford......And that is Bush's fault i suppose


I am not a bush supporter but be fair and consistent...

[musclemann]

Last time I checked the military is all volunteer. Also, since it is the MILITARY, I'm guessing people kind of know going in that the military isn't exactly working at the local Walmart.



So now it's the government's fault, and Bush's in particular, that people were too stupid to get the proper mortgage for themselves? That's funny. I wish people were smart enough to know that if you have a low rate for a certain amount of months, and then that rate goes up, your payment goes up. How on Earth could you try to blame that on any President?



Health insurance is not a right. It's not the government's job to be involved with it.



I'm confused by the last sentence, maybe a typo? The stock market and the economy have skyrocketed, but not unemployment.



I've not thought of terror as a making money thing before. I've only thought of how there have been no USS Cole or Saudi military compund-type bombings. Remember this?

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9606/25/saudi.explosion/

or this?

http://www.al-bab.com/yemen/cole1.htm

For some reason I can't find an article on a similar event the last 6 years, strange.

GREAT POINTS RUSH. HEY DID YOU GET YOUR PACKAGE IN THE MAIL YET?

[KazDog]

I'd agree with both of you on the housing market. It is cyclical and it's not really Bush's fault for the decline. The housing market IS dead on his watch which is more of what I was alluding to.

One could make the argument however, that the cost of living has risen due to higher gas prices and oil prices as a direct result of the Iraq war. And because of the higher costs, the housing market has suffered. Prices rose and interest rates did as well, but the rise was fallacious as banks lent more and more money to people in an overinflated housing market.....

KAZ

[musclemann]

Last time I checked the military is all volunteer. Also, since it is the MILITARY, I'm guessing people kind of know going in that the military isn't exactly working at the local Walmart.



So now it's the government's fault, and Bush's in particular, that people were too stupid to get the proper mortgage for themselves? That's funny. I wish people were smart enough to know that if you have a low rate for a certain amount of months, and then that rate goes up, your payment goes up. How on Earth could you try to blame that on any President?



Health insurance is not a right. It's not the government's job to be involved with it.



I'm confused by the last sentence, maybe a typo? The stock market and the economy have skyrocketed, but not unemployment.



I've not thought of terror as a making money thing before. I've only thought of how there have been no USS Cole or Saudi military compund-type bombings. Remember this?

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9606/25/saudi.explosion/

or this?

http://www.al-bab.com/yemen/cole1.htm

For some reason I can't find an article on a similar event the last 6 years, strange.

Hey but we do have the right to send trillions of dollars to iraq and give huge amounts of money and contracts to defense contractors directly tied to bush's cabinet's, screw the middle class if their kids need health insurance because I'd rather have my money spent lining the pockets of some special interest group in the middle east.


I love the way you spin this also the coutry hasnt been attacked in 6 years but iT was attacked when your now pres was somewhere reading a dr. seuss book to a bunch of first graders.


IF THIS DUDE(BUSH) WAS DEMOCRATIC YOU WOULD BE ALL OVER HIM SAYING HE WAS A WEAK DEMOCRAT LIKE CARTER.

[tonynico]

I'd agree with both of you on the housing market. It is cyclical and it's not really Bush's fault for the decline. The housing market IS dead on his watch which is more of what I was alluding to.

One could make the argument however, that the cost of living has risen due to higher gas prices and oil prices as a direct result of the Iraq war. And because of the higher costs, the housing market has suffered. Prices rose and interest rates did as well, but the rise was fallacious as banks lent more and more money to people in an overinflated housing market.....

KAZ

I guess if you are going to say it is dead on his watch, then you must have said it was great on his watch 2 years ago?

Oil is at an all-time high, but adjusted for inflation, still cheaper then early 80's.
I don't think there is a correlation between oil prices and housing. Housing has been hurt by speculators artifically driving up prices, lenders loosening underwriting standards (liar loans), which was done to keep the overly hot market moving forward, stupid, irresponsible consumers getting in way over their heads and trying to buy things they weren't ready for financially, and Wall Street gobbling up mortgage-backed securities.

[KazDog]

I guess if you are going to say it is dead on his watch, then you must have said it was great on his watch 2 years ago?

Oil is at an all-time high, but adjusted for inflation, still cheaper then early 80's.
I don't think there is a correlation between oil prices and housing. Housing has been hurt by speculators artifically driving up prices, lenders loosening underwriting standards (liar loans), which was done to keep the overly hot market moving forward, stupid, irresponsible consumers getting in way over their heads and trying to buy things they weren't ready for financially, and Wall Street gobbling up mortgage-backed securities.

I already agreed with you on the housing market. I just gave a small counter point that it could be said that higher gas and oil prices were a cause for inflationary pricing in the housing market. Yes, it was at an all time high on his watch and now has declined on his watch. That would be true statements.

KAZ

[BearDown]

Apples you were pointing out how good things are going and I was pointing out that things are not as good as they seem, that's it. No where did I say it was Bush's fault on the housing market.

[ULikeApples]

GREAT POINTS RUSH. HEY DID YOU GET YOUR PACKAGE IN THE MAIL YET?

Package? Sorry, maybe it's an inside joke thing, but I haven't listened to Rush in close to a decade now.

[insidethe8thpol]

Hey but we do have the right to send trillions of dollars to iraq and give huge amounts of money and contracts to defense contractors directly tied to bush's cabinet's, screw the middle class if their kids need health insurance because I'd rather have my money spent lining the pockets of some special interest group in the middle east.


I love the way you spin this also the coutry hasnt been attacked in 6 years but iT was attacked when your now pres was somewhere reading a dr. seuss book to a bunch of first graders.


IF THIS DUDE(BUSH) WAS DEMOCRATIC YOU WOULD BE ALL OVER HIM SAYING HE WAS A WEAK DEMOCRAT LIKE CARTER.

Well, what about Murtha & all of the other Libs who have taken in so much Pork Money for themselves & THEIR FRIENDS?? What about when Clinton HAD the chance to take out Bin Laden & chickened out because there was children in the area??

And for petes sake, stop blaming Bush for Katrina (another poster)

WHEN SOMEONE ON TV SAYS "THIS IS GOING TO BE A MAJOR HURRICANE, GET OUT!!"

GET OUT!!

Does that make it Bush's fault??
What about the Governor of LA who stood on TV and cried??

Its like when someone tells you not to touch something because its hot & you do anyway, is it that persons fault??

If you want to fight, fight the politicians who are robbing us blind every goddamn day of the year WHILE THEIR WALLETS GET FATTER & FATTER.

Remember right after 9/11 when all Congress stood on the steps & sang & told the country how they will do everything they can to keep our country in unity??

They are all singing a different tune now. WHY??

They are looking for votes to fill their bank accounts even more.

[BettorsChat]

Clinton did do a bomb attack on Bin Laden at a training camp, but he wasn't there.

[BettorsChat]

[QUOTE=ULikeApples]



Health insurance is not a right. It's not the government's job to be involved with it.

[QUOTE]

No, it should be a right and not a privilege.

How many other Countries out there have Universal health care? However, the greatest and richest Country in the world doesn't.

[TwoTonTony]

Universal Health Care is a Joke

Ask the guy in Canada if there is such thing as 2nd opinion???
NOPE

Also they are only allotted a certain # of procedures.....

It is not all it is cracked up to be....

I was exposed to alot of this debate when i was in pharma and was sent a great piece by a doctor in CT 2 days ago and now i can not find it....I will have him re-send and i will post it for those who think Universal Health Insurance is so great

[ULikeApples]

[QUOTE=BettorsChat][QUOTE=ULikeApples]



Health insurance is not a right. It's not the government's job to be involved with it.

No, it should be a right and not a privilege.

How many other Countries out there have Universal health care? However, the greatest and richest Country in the world doesn't.

Health care should be a right. But government paid for medical procedures should not. Those other countries aren't governed by the rules set forth in our Constitution.

[TwoTonTony]

[QUOTE=ULikeApples][QUOTE=BettorsChat]

Health insurance is not a right. It's not the government's job to be involved with it.



Health care should be a right. But government paid for medical procedures should not. Those other countries aren't governed by the rules set forth in our Constitution.

nope and they all pay taxes north of 50% of their wages.....because the #1 cost is HEALTHCARE.....

We as Americans are responsible to keep ourselves healthy (would save billions) but most are fat/obese.......Injuries happen and so does disease but the fastest growing epidemic is obesity and obesity related diseases....

I do not want to be on the hook for people who have no self-respect, self-discipline or control.....Since this is the largest growth portion of medicine....I personally would rather insurance companies (many are now) pay for personal training (limited time), gym memberships and food education....It would be cheaper in the long run...

The key word here folks is prevention

[BearDown]

Universal Health Care is a Joke

Ask the guy in Canada if there is such thing as 2nd opinion???
NOPE

Also they are only allotted a certain # of procedures.....

It is not all it is cracked up to be....

I was exposed to alot of this debate when i was in pharma and was sent a great piece by a doctor in CT 2 days ago and now i can not find it....I will have him re-send and i will post it for those who think Universal Health Insurance is so great

Tony, for every horror story you find about Universal Health Care. I'm sure I can find a great story about Universal Health Care.

Here is the reason the right, or the people who lean right don't like Universal Health Care. Because there is a chance, do I dare say it. A chance that they will have to pay more taxes. That's the reason.

Here is how I see the system we have now.

I have health insurance through my company which I have had for over 3 years. It cost me around $60.00 a week. Out of the 3 + years I have used my insurance NEVER! But if I have to go to the doctor I have to pay $25.00 just for an office visit not too mention any other cost. My question is. Where is the money going that I've been paying for 3 years? My guess is that it has been paying for someone else's health care. Sounds like Universal Health Care to me, but we are just not getting it. Or I should say, were getting it alright.