Soonerbud

[Three Jack]

In response to your shot fired in Wayne's thread, find me a post where I said LeBron was the greatest of all time? Perhaps you should pay attention to what you read before throwing stones.

What I said is that you are being shortsighted and obviously have something against LeBron and the Cavs. Perhaps he has cost you a ton in the playoffs...I don't know. But your continuing to whine about him and calling him a punk is becoming rather humorous as you are proved more wrong by the day. And I am not saying what I think is right. Just open up the latest issue of SI where all NBA players were polled and 71% of the players in the league 5 yrs or more called him the best player in the game. Something like 55% of all the players said he was better than D Wade. I will take their opinion before I take mine or yours!

[jcindaville]

He cost him a ton in the playoffs Jack. It is obvious that is the case. No way one dude has that much venom unless he has been pounded financially.

JMO

[jcindaville]

Good Luck Wayne........Hey for KB and Three Jack and some of the "Witnesses" could you put out a poll on the GREATEST player of all time? I just think they would like an opportunity to tell you about the SAVIOR...........before Duncan, Parker and Co do a number on their idol.......just a thought. Love the A's call!

this dude wont quit, what will he say if Cleveland wins

[Three Jack]

JC, unbelievable...check out his posts in Wayne's 'Picks for Saturday' thread. He continues to take shots at LeBron and keeps coming up empty.

I don't think they guy is even in the top 50 of all time...how can he be if he has been in the league 3 or 4 yrs, but he certainly has the potential to be top 5.

[jcindaville]

JC, unbelievable...check out his posts in Wayne's 'Picks for Saturday' thread. He continues to take shots at LeBron and keeps coming up empty.

I don't think they guy is even in the top 50 of all time...how can he be if he has been in the league 3 or 4 yrs, but he certainly has the potential to be top 5.

I saw it, there is no reasoning with him. Lebron will have to win 2 titles and 3 MVP's just to get this guy to stop calling him a punk

Seriously, I am not saying Lebron is the next MJ, but for a 22 year old he has led his team to the NBA finals. That alone is worth something; isnt it?

[Chado1]

Smallmouths beware, this neck is heading North to Chado country

LMAO...

When are you heading down pal?

[jcindaville]

LMAO...

When are you heading down pal?

I am leaving tomorrow at noon. Will be staying in Wallaceburg and fishing Thurs-Sunday.

The weather looks good right now on the weather channel

[Three Jack]

Big weekend...enjoy the trip JC!

[Chado1]

I am leaving tomorrow at noon. Will be staying in Wallaceburg and fishing Thurs-Sunday.

The weather looks good right now on the weather channel

Have a great time bud!!!

You should keep driving about an hour more north and come say whats up...I am only about an hour from where you are going (I think)....

[soonerbud]

Three Jack.....talk about whining......you can't take a "playful" barb in Waynes thread??? And as for my losses with Lebron, I told you before I lost one C note not even close to a big deal. I have stated my point several times. So once AGAIN I say...........I have NO problem with Lebron. My problem is that after ONE OT game where this kid scores 48 points he is suddenly a SAVIOR. In fact I believe that the thread spoke of his ARRIVAL. It just irritates me that after ONE good game, and finally making the playoffs everyone thinks is sooo great. IMO you become GREAT one way..........win rings. Because unless I am terribly mistaken, that is why these guys play. So until he has done that (which I can't wait to watch the Spurs take that chance from the Cavs) I reserve the right for any talk of greatness etc. Dude, YOU need to settle down, it was a playful barb, I have NO ill will against you, and as for "venom" that Ville mentioned, I have NONE, dude I have way more important things to worry about. It was ONE C note, hell, I loss 3 times that much on the Braves the other night I have NO VENOM towards them. IMO you need to not let things get to you brother, I am not "taking shots" at you. As for the SI article, I havn't seen it, but I don't doubt it. He is a good player, the best in the NBA right now, I disagree. Kobe by far is the best in the NBA right now, and Dwade (with his ring) is right there as well. So I guess we choose to disagree, but don't act like I am taking shots a you. Also, I never said in Wayne's thread that YOU called him the greatest, I asked Wayne to give you all an opportunity to "Bear Witness" to Lebron. And Ville, I don't worry about what I will say if the Cavs win.........that isn't going to happen. He ain't that good brother!!

[Three Jack]

So, in a team sport, individual greatness is defined by teams winning or losing? So James Posey, Antoine Walker and Jason Williams are all great, but Oscar Robertson, Charles barkley, Patrick Ewing are not?

Like it or not, by today's standards and talent level in the NBA, he is great. I don't necssarlity agree with it, but as they say now asays, it is what it is.

And why do you think that NBA players think he is better than DWade? And I realize now that your contempt for LeBron comes from being a Heat fan and in love with DWade, which I am fine with...all part of being a fan.

[soonerbud]

First of all do your homework before you write such a ridiculous statement as the first part of your post.........Why would Oscar Robertson not be considered GREAT.....1971 NBA Championship with the Bucks. As for Barkley, he will be the first to admit that not winning a Championship takes something from you. Patrick Ewing was never GREAT anyway, product of the word GREAT being used to frequently.
The most important part of your post if I understand it, is that you don't necessary agree that he is GREAT???
You can remain blind to how the media works, but it is quite simple......Leborn HAS to GREAT. Nike has too much money invested in him, as does the NBA. It is NO difference then Tiger, (although Tiger has proven his GREATNESS) but from the beginning he was going to shatter Jacks majors record. I am a golf historian, and what Bobby Jones did by winning the "TRUE" Grand Slam is by far the most incredible feat in golf history. But to date Tiger hasn't won 18 majors, so until he does, Jack remains the GREATEST. Now will he break it, probably, but until he does, Tiger himself would tell you that Jack is King. But from day ONE the media called him the "best ever".
It is the same secenario here, until Lebron has won something, I reserve the right to call him GREAT. One trip to the playoffs and ONE great game, IMO does not greatness make. Say all you want about Dwade, he has the ring that they all covet so much. And you know as well as I do, he isn't going to get one this year........................if you believe otherwise, tell me how much $$$ you will bear WITNESS to his GREATNESS and I will definately take all you want. Talk about "it is what it is" the Cavs and his "greatness" will find out that winning the Eastern Conf truly is what it is.............lol

[Three Jack]

You are correct in that I misspoke about Oscar, but if I pull up the list of the Greatest 50 Players to ever play the game, which Ewing and Barkley are on, you will find more players that have not won a title, that I guess you will never recognize as being great. I don't disagree that it 'takes something away', but that is irrelevant and not part of the discussion. So, if I follow your reasoning, Barkley was not great and neither is anyone that played the game who did not win a title. Or, let me ask you this...was there anyone in your estimation that is/was 'great' that never won a title.

You crack me up with your thinking that the media has created all of this. I don't disagree that the fan the flames. But I think I understand your thinking now...because the media does hype LeBron, and for all the right reasons, and doesn't do the same to DWade, that has gotten under your skin. So be it, its your opinion and you are entitled to it. I guess the media has somehow created this 6'6", 250lb 22 y/o that has posted numbers no one else has in the history of the game at that age. He doesn't really do it, the media says he has done it but it is all a facade...I get it now, makes sense.

As for your reference to Tiger, why would you compare an individual in a team sport to an individual that can more easily prove his 'greatness'? By your definition of 'great', anyone in a team sport needs people around him to reach that level but an individual in tennis or golf, perhaps even bowling, can more easily define thier stature.

I am still anxious to hear your opinion as to why NBA players think LeBron is better than DWade and by a convincing margin.

[kbsooner21]

You are correct in that I misspoke about Oscar, but if I pull up the list of the Greatest 50 Players to ever play the game, which Ewing and Barkley are on, you will find more players that have not won a title, that I guess you will never recognize as being great. I don't disagree that it 'takes something away', but that is irrelevant and not part of the discussion. So, if I follow your reasoning, Barkley was not great and neither is anyone that played the game who did not win a title. Or, let me ask you this...was there anyone in your estimation that is/was 'great' that never won a title.

You crack me up with your thinking that the media has created all of this. I don't disagree that the fan the flames. But I think I understand your thinking now...because the media does hype LeBron, and for all the right reasons, and doesn't do the same to DWade, that has gotten under your skin. So be it, its your opinion and you are entitled to it. I guess the media has somehow created this 6'6", 250lb 22 y/o that has posted numbers no one else has in the history of the game at that age. He doesn't really do it, the media says he has done it but it is all a facade...I get it now, makes sense.

As for your reference to Tiger, why would you compare an individual in a team sport to an individual that can more easily prove his 'greatness'? By your definition of 'great', anyone in a team sport needs people around him to reach that level but an individual in tennis or golf, perhaps even bowling, can more easily define thier stature.

I am still anxious to hear your opinion as to why NBA players think LeBron is better than DWade and by a convincing margin.

[soonerbud]

Dude, with all due respect.....did you miss the whole point with Tiger? I have always respected you and your posts, but I did not compare them AT ALL. I compared the media and there effect on how a player is promoted.
I did address the SI poll, by saying that "he is a good player, but by far Kobe is the best in the NBA right now".
Is it so far fetched that someone in this world (actually there are many people who share my opinion on how we just throw the word GREAT around when it comes to atheletes.) that people don't necessarily by into that your man Lebron is the best out there. And not because of "made up venom" but simply because they don't feel he is the BEST.
In fact, Fox Sports just had an article on this subject comparing your boy Lebron to Magic, MJ hell even Larry Legend. That we are so eager to jump on the wagon. My point is simple, you can chose not to accept it that's your right. But Lebron has really done NOTHING to warrant your assumptions that he is the best now or ever. Sure he is good, and at 22 he probably is doing things NO one else ever has. Is he talented Yes, but he also came out of high school to a team that inserted him immediately because they suck soooo bad, he didn't go to college. So by the time a player like MJ was 22 he probably had been in the league maybe one year or two maybe??
As a society we have a tendency to go to "the next big thing" is Lebron this probably. But right now IMO he has taken a weak team to the finals, winning a very weak Eastern Conf, with the easiest route to the Finals. Are they there YES, will they WIN .............absolutely NO (you still didn't tell me how much you would bear witness $$$ to this) so in your opinion your interpetation of GREATNESS comes in getting them to the finals??
I hear alot of the players that say Lebron is the best in the NBA saying "Hey, we got here, thats all that matters, win or lose we got here."
People who accept second, throw the word GREAT around, people who expect Greatness and are GREAT WIN!! If he is the ONE, the Savior, the BEST (according to his NBA brothers) then winning this Championship should be NO Problem for KING JAMES...............and again you want to "bear witness" by how much $$$$..........Trust me, IF they were to win NO ONE would proclaim his GREATNESS more then me, but I have a feeling the Great One and his followers are in a bunch of trouble. But I know you believe in his Greatness, so how much to you believe $$$ or are willing to bear witness to???
Hey KB, I always value you opinion and respect your posts....but why the clapping hands? You are excited that Three Jack had his NBA facts about The Big O wrong. But by your avator you obviously accept second.....bwwaahhhh