Why No Face Mask Call in the Green Bay Game

[mavskidd02]

It's really stupid to argue about this further, as almost every call has opinion involved, but I think you should familiarize yourself more with the NFl rules and officiating assignments before commenting further.

The mask was still pulled downward and twisted toward Adams, this is show clearly when the back of Rodgers helmet is literally rising because the front is being pulled downward.

The helmet to helmet contact also went uncalled. That call even more blatant the previously mentioned one.

[NoCashMcgraff]

To call others "clowns" is a real asshole move, because no one in this thread is a clown. There are very few "clowns" on this site, but you really are starting to become one.

Aaron Rodgers is not my boy, nor did he "choke the game away", you would have to be an idiot to think that. When a QB scores 45 points...... he didn't choke.

And yes, I defy you to find me to calls that were so blatantly missed as in the video posted.

The NFL is quite clear on protecting the QB and if you watch video of the Fitzgerald TD, where roughing is called on Jolly, you will see that. Jolly is literally pushed by an O-linemen into Warner and the play is called as roughing once Warner goes down.

But go ahead and find me a couple "huge missed calls". I doubt any two, are as blatant with video evidence as these.

First and foremost, the "clowns" I am referring to aren't on this site, my fault for not specifying. There are many people who follow football that are not a part of this site.

Rodgers didn't choke the game away? Video evidence here says otherwise. How about you flip to the 50 sec mark in this video.

YouTube - Cardinals beat Packers in OT(entire overtime besides coin toss)

However, like I have said to you many, many times before. The NFL is the ULTIMATE team game, as good as Rodgers is or ever will be, he will never win anything in the NFL if his TEAM (defense) does not improve. Yet, for some reason, a QBs skill level is ultimately determined by his TEAMS success. That is where that logic is flawed.

So, while I am sitting here giving you video evidence of how Rodgers missed a WIDE OPEN Greg Jennings that would have won them the game, I still do not believe he choked the game away but many others will say he did. This is not even mentioning the fact that Rodgers did not read the blitz correctly, nor did he hold on to the ball, which eventually cost his team the game. However, for me, or anyone else for that matter to state that Rodgers choked the game away would be asinine.

In conclusion, outside of the facemask no call, there is no argument here. I am just stating the same point to you, that I stated before, and now that the teams and QBs have flipped my stance has not, hopefully yours has as well.

[mavskidd02]

You want me to find video evidence of the refs missing calls on the Cardinals?

Simply put, still, yes.

And I saw the missed pass. That makes him a choker? LOL. He threw for 425 yards and what 4, 5 TDs? He misss one pass in OT, that makes him a choker? The defense choked, not once but seven times. When you give up scores on 7 of 8 possesions, it's NEVER the QB's fault.

Ask any educated sports analyzer, they will tell you the same. You are correct that this was not Rodgers fault.

"However, like I have said to you many, many times before. The NFL is the ULTIMATE team game, as good as Rodgers is or ever will be, he will never win anything in the NFL if his TEAM (defense) does not improve. Yet, for some reason, a QBs skill level is ultimately determined by his TEAMS success. That is where that logic is flawed."

I am not here to argue this logic.

[kbsooner21]

You want me to find video evidence of the refs missing calls on the Cardinals? I can probably pull up just as many bad calls on them. You think just because their missed calls didn't occur on the last play of the game they aren't as meaningful? I also never said the refs shouldn't throw the flag because it didn't effect the play, I said stop BITCHING about a missed call that didn't effect the play. I still am not certain that that was a facemask and I have seen it over and over, yeah maybe is where I stand.

By the way, if I was as idiotic as some of other the clowns I would laugh at you and your boy Rodgers for choking that game away. On the contrary I still think Rodgers is a stud and a top 5 QB and his 0-1 playoff record doesn't change my opinion.

[mavskidd02]

You can find video evidence? I'd like to see two more blatant missed calls against Zona....

[kbsooner21]

You can find video evidence? I'd like to see two more blatant missed calls against Zona....

Blatant in your eyes maybe. Not so much in mine.

[mavskidd02]

Blatant in your eyes maybe. Not so much in mine.

We'll agree to disagree, but if you think Dansby is not leading with the crown of his helmet directly into Rodgers facemask, than I really think you have Zona colored glasses on, just as much as I have GB colored ones on.

[NoCashMcgraff]

just stumbled across this....

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/po...ce-mask-ruling


By Kevin Seifert

I returned to NFC North headquarters Monday to find the brawl still taking place over Green Bay’s final play of the season.

As we visually noted Sunday, Arizona cornerback Michael Adams caught his right index finger on Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers’ facemask. Had a penalty been called, Karlos Dansby's game-winning touchdown would have bee nullified.

A picture is worth a thousand words, but it also captures a split-second in time. The potential for penalty is far less obvious when watching the play in live speed.

The NFL issued a rules explanation Monday in response to questions about the play. I got my hands on it this afternoon, and its general tone suggests that no illegal act occurred because Adams -- in the judgment of officials -- did not twist, turn or pull Rodgers’ facemask. An inadvertent grab is legal in part because of a 2008 rule revision.

Before 2008? The play probably would have been a penalty. For those of you who want to read the entire explanation, I’ve included it at the bottom of this post.

You know how I feel about officiating. I think calls even out over time. But they still can make a huge impact in individual games, and that’s why they’re fair game for discussion in setting like these. We spent at least one post every week hashing through some of the more interesting ones during the regular season.

If I were a Packers fan, I would probably be more upset about the non-call of an apparent helmet-to-helmet hit on Rodgers two plays before it. Rodgers, for his part, told reporters in Green Bay on Monday that he spent most of his time thinking about his overthrow of receiver Greg Jennings on the first play of overtime.

“There's always going to be one or two plays in the game where you wonder should there be a call, shouldn't there be a call, but those are out of my control,” Rodgers said, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. “The things I worry about are the things I can control. I made some mistakes in the game. Those are the ones I'm thinking about. Not a potential facemask on that.

“The one play I was thinking about laying in bed was the first play of overtime. Unfortunately, just missed Greg on that one that could have ended the game. But [the Cardinals] made a play in overtime, you have to give them credit for that.”

OK then. Here is the full explanation from the NFL:


A "facemask" penalty is a judgment call that is not reviewable by replay.

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 5 of the NFL Rule Book (page 81) states that "no player shall twist, turn, or pull the facemask of an opponent in any direction."

The Rule Book describes the penalty as follows:

"Penalty: For twisting, turning or pulling the mask: loss of 15 yards. A personal foul. The player may be disqualified if the action is judged by the official(s) to be of a flagrant nature."

The Rule Book describes an approved ruling as it relates to facemask penalties (page 81).

"A.R. 12.12 - Third-and-10 on A30. Runner A1 runs to the A33, where he is tackled by B1, who incidentally grasps A1's facemask on the tackle, but it is not a twist, turn or pull. Ruling: A's ball, fourth-and-seven, on A33. No foul."

Prior to the 2008 season, a rule change was approved that eliminated the foul for the incidental grasp of the facemask.

The language of the rule as it relates to a facemask penalty through the 2007 season:

"Penalty: Incidental grasping of the mask -- five yards. Not a personal foul (if by the defense there is no automatic first down). Twisting, turning, or pulling the mask -- 15 yards. A personal foul. The player may be disqualified if the action is judged by the official(s) to be of a flagrant nature."

[kbsooner21]

Mavs, do you not see his helmet hit his shoulder pads first? The helmet did come up into the facemask after the initial hit.

What do you want to see, flag football?

Give me a break...

And I can't stand either team, so I'm not taking sides. I just want to see some fucking FOOTBALL played, not Futbol or flag football.

[ravenmaniac]

Not to mention the offensive pass interference penalty they missed on Larry Fitzgerald when he shoved Woodson to the ground on his one handed TD catch. That should have definitely been called. I know officials miss calls every game and make calls they shouldn't be made and over a full season they probably all even out. I just think that was a very poorly officiated game and think it is a shame they were bounced from the playoffs on an obvious penalty that wasn't called.. That's my final say on the game.

[mavskidd02]

Mavs, do you not see his helmet hit his shoulder pads first? The helmet did come up into the facemask after the initial hit.

Upon initial contact, the crown of the helmet hits Rodgers in the facemask before anything. Yes, Dansby's facemask contacts his shoulder pads. That is not what I am talking abut.

KB, I'm not one to whine and cry about officiating, not to call fix (there wasn't one here ; just bad officiating). But I literally watched every play of the game and every little thing was called, every little tick tack thing. From illegal contacts to holdings to roughing the passers. When Warner's roughing was called against Jolly, I was livid. But that's fine, as long as it goes both ways.

I just want consistency, and if this was a rough and brutal game here, I wouldn't care. But if you're the NFL and you want to pretend to care so much about the QBs and all this "protection", and you want to do it for Warner, it has to be done both ways....

That's all.

[mavskidd02]

Not to mention the offensive pass interference penalty they missed on Larry Fitzgerald when he shoved Woodson to the ground on his one handed TD catch. That should have definitely been called. I know officials miss calls every game and make calls they shouldn't be made and over a full season they probably all even out. I just think that was a very poorly officiated game and think it is a shame they were bounced from the playoffs on an obvious penalty that wasn't called.. That's my final say on the game.

This, I believe is the same play I referenced above, the play they called Jolly for roughing. If you can find video of that play, I'd like it, I can't find it, however.

[frankb03]

I don't know why everyone is trying to justify this no call. Must have had $ on the Cards. It was a blatant face mask that should have been called. The officials fucked up by missing the call.

I didn't bet the game. Also, I was rooting for GB. I never noticed the facemask until this morning on Mike and Mike. From one angle where we see the ref in the back ground you can clearly see the ref looking at the ball. While looking at the ball he reaches for his bean bag. Also, try to remember the replays on Mike and Mike were in slo-motion. It's easier to wonder how the ref missed the call.

While I think the officiating in the NFL is a joke in their defense they can't see everything. What infuriates me more is blatant calls or non calls that are missed when the ref is looking directly at the infractions. A perfect example was a few plays earlier. I thought the missed call on the helmet to helmet on Rodgers was worse than the missed call on the face mask.

[ULikeApples]

From Peter King today:

Regarding the non-facemask call on the last play of Arizona-Green Bay: I've watched the TiVoed combination of replays six times now. Arizona's Michael Adams blitzes, dislodges the ball from Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers, rakes his hands over the facemask of Rodgers, then appears to grab the facemask, and the ball is inadvertently kicked by Rodgers.

The ball flies briefly into the air and is grabbed by Arizona linebacker Karlos Dansby, who secures it and runs into the end zone for the winning touchdown. Adams keeps his hands on the mask as he plows into Rodgers and brings him to the ground. Adams didn't tackle him by the mask, but his hand did stay secured on the mask as Rodgers fell to the ground. (I say it that way because from the mountain of e-mails and Tweets last night, most of you think he got yanked to the ground by the facemask. It didn't appear that way to me.)

For a facemask penalty to be called, there has to be evidence not just of a hand on the mask, but of twisting and pulling of the facemask. And there is a slight pulling of it, but not in a flagrant way. To me, it's a close call. But what complicates matters is this: The referee, Scott Green, is the official on the crew with the responsibility of watching plays involving the quarterback. Once the ball has been dislodged, Green has to watch the ball, not the contact on the quarterback. He has to see if the ball hits the ground and judge if it's a forward pass or a fumble, then he has to follow the live ball until the end of the play. So Green could not -- at least, he should not -- have seen the contact on the mask of Rodgers.

Of course, the reason this is a big concern is if a facemask had been called, Green Bay would have had a first down at its 32 in a game where defense was optional. I don't see how the call could have been made any differently with the current rules and officiating assignments the way they are.

[wayne1218]

I saw the replay long after the fact. I had GB and i wasn't pissed about it at that point because i knew nothing was changing. I was somewhat shocked however that it wasn't called after seeing it over and over again. I thought it was clearly a face mask grab and it's hard for me to believe people would say otherwise after seeing it. I think the problem was as frank stated, when the ball came out, the refs focus switched from the qb to the ball and he missed it. I was shocked they missed the helmet to helmet too. PI or holding calls are missed on every play and usually judgement calls but they rarely miss helmet to helmet and facemask calls on the qb and i think they clearly did. It is what it is.

I have to admit, i was waaaay more disturbed by the play before when Rodgers missed a wide open Jennings for 7. That was their chance to win it right there imo. After that they had the holding call and i just had a feeling things would go south from there and they did.