Good News For the Red Sox and Their Fans

[wayne1218]

That is what i thought bryce. You threw me off with the .190 stuff!

[savage1]

Who gives a fuck about '06????

Of course you think picking up a .210 hitter is worth a shot because in your eyes, every move the Red Sox make is a "Good" one.

Well, unlike many, I thought they waited way too long with Smoltz, and I was quite angry when they let him pitch against the Yankees in that first game at the stadium especially.
I don't think one can say that Gonzo is washed up simply because he is hitting .210;he is only 32.
Have you forgotten how great he was at shortstop defensively
when he played here?-he can run rings around Lugo and I think he is much more consistent in the field than either Green or Lowrie.

[bryce]

That is what i thought bryce. You threw me off with the .190 stuff!

ha--I was a kid when Mario was in Pittsburgh---that .190 stuck in my head for some reason!!

[bryce]

maybe he batted that a few times---30 years ago---I am probably wrong on that time line too!

[bryce]

I was close---here is the rest of Mario's saga...

The term is named for former shortstop Mario Mendoza, a flashy defensive player but a poor hitter who struggled at the plate. Although Mendoza's batting average was .215 lifetime,[1] he was known as a sub-.200 hitter whose average frequently fell into the .170 to .180 range during any particular year. That proved to be true in 1979 when Mendoza managed to finish the year with a meager .198 average. Baseball legend George Brett is believed to have coined the term early in that season when asked about his own batting average.[2] Brett is said to have remarked "The first thing I look for in the Sunday papers is who is below the Mendoza line".[3] Bruce Bochy and Tom Paciorek have also been credited as creators of the expression.[4]

One explanation for the expression relates to the historical presentation of numerous batting averages in the Sunday newspapers. Not all batting averages were presented. The theory holds that Mario Mendoza was at the bottom of those that were published and players with lower batting averages did not appear. They were "below the Mendoza line".[5]

An alternative explanation refers to the concept of a player failing to "hit his weight." Bob Prince, a Pirates announcer, used this meaning in the 1970s when Mendoza played for Pittsburgh. According to his Baseball-Reference.com player page, Mendoza weighed 187 pounds. Mendoza ended his 1975 season with the Pirates with a batting average of .180 and batted only .185 in 1976, so this was a frequent occurrence. Since then the Mendoza Line has been arbitrarily set at values ranging from .180 to .215.

[wayne1218]

Well, unlike many, I thought they waited way too long with Smoltz, and I was quite angry when they let him pitch against the Yankees in that first game at the stadium especially.
I don't think one can say that Gonzo is washed up simply because he is hitting .210;he is only 32.
Have you forgotten how great he was at shortstop defensively
when he played here?-he can run rings around Lugo and I think he is much more consistent in the field than either Green or Lowrie.

I don't give 2 shits about defense when he is fucken hitting .210

It is like the NL with a god damn pitcher batting in the 9 spot. I'll take 1 error every 4-5 games in place of a fucken .210 hitter!

[wayne1218]

I don't give 2 shits about defense when he is fucken hitting .210

It is like the NL with a god damn pitcher batting in the 9 spot. I'll take 1 error every 4-5 games in place of a fucken .210 hitter!

Make that .209

He is shockingly 0-1 tonight!

[wayne1218]

He hit .255 in 2006 savage with 9 HR's and 50 RBI's. I wasn't sad to see him go.

[savage1]

He hit .255 in 2006 savage with 9 HR's and 50 RBI's. I wasn't sad to see him go.

I think strength up the middle is essential, and that includes defensive.
Have you forgotten how good he was at shortstop and what great range he had(hopefully still does)?
Granted it would be better if the other guys on the team were leading the league in batting average and other offensive categories;then they could afford to have a weak hitting shortstop(assuming he doesn't improve, which I think he will).
However, just think of Mark Belanger, one of the greatest fielding shortstops ever and all of the many years he played on the Orioles simply because of his defense-that says something for the importance of defense for a shortstop.
As I am sure you are aware, he couldn't hit a lick, and while I didn't check it, I would bet his lifetime average is in the low 220's or so., and I shudder to think of how many home runs and rbis he had.

[savage1]

Here are the lifetime stats. for Mark Belanger:

18 years played-avg. .228, HR's 20 and 389 RBI's.

[bryce]

Here are the lifetime stats. for Mark Belanger:

18 years played-avg. .228, HR's 20 and 389 RBI's.

Well I don't know what you are saying but I would of thought he had a much higher average---he is from the 70's I believe--early 80's perhaps..

[wayne1218]

Here are the lifetime stats. for Mark Belanger:

18 years played-avg. .228, HR's 20 and 389 RBI's.

Yes, and he fucken sucked. What's your point and again, WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK ABOUT MARK BELANGER?

[wayne1218]

I know what i'm gonna hear ... "Belanger played 18 years with that average and stayed in the majors because of his defense ... BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!"

It is not the 70's or fucken 80's savage and nobody seriously gives a fuck about Belanger.

[flarendep1]

I watched Mark "the blade" Belanger play growing up. Great glove no hit, no power.

The Orioles had great pitching and lots of great hitting around this weak link. Cal Ripken changed the position of SS forever.

[savage1]

Yes, and he fucken sucked. What's your point and again, WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK ABOUT MARK BELANGER?

I wouldn't call this exactly sucking:

Mark Henry Belanger (June 8, 1944 – October 6, 1998) was an American shortstop in Major League Baseball who played almost his entire career with the Baltimore Orioles. A defensive standout, he won eight Gold Glove Awards between 1969 and 1978, leading the American League in assists and fielding percentage three times each, and retired with the highest career fielding average by an AL shortstop (.977). He set franchise records for career games, assists and double plays as a shortstop, all of which were later broken.

I obviously think a great defensive shortstop is more important that you do-that is not to say I am more correct that you -it is simply my perception.
Also to change the subject, regarding Gonzo, is 2007 hit .272 with the Reds, hit 16 home runs an drove in 52;he was out of the 2008 season because of an injury.
I still think it was a good gamble for the Sox to get him considering defensive woes a that position have been influential is some of the games they lost this season.
Also, I don't always take the "what have you done for me lately" approach and simply conclude that a player is washed up because he has had a bad season
The best example of this is Mike Lowell, coming off a .236 season with home runs for the Marlins.
mmany said "oh no, not him" when the Sox took him as part of the Beckett deal.
I don't have to remind anyone that even though he is and has been injury prone, what a great pickup he has proven to be and especially in 2007 when he led the team down the stretch and was named WS MVP.
The point here is lets see what Gonzo can do, and hope he can return to some of the form he showed here in 2006 and with the Reds in 2007.