Anyone Watching the David Ortiz Statement and Press Conference?

[molta02]

I sure as heck respect peter Gammons opinion in such matters over YOURS whether he agrees with me or not!

of course you do in this matter. TAKE THE BLINDERS OFF.

[savage1]

of course you do in this matter. TAKE THE BLINDERS OFF.

There are no blinders; as stated it has NOTHING/NADA/ZILCH to do with the fact that it is Ortiz who is at issue here.
Presumed innocence is exactly that;the case against Clemens is infinitely stronger at this point.
If/when/until the case against Ortiz or any other player accused through a leak is actually PROVEN, I will reserve final judgment.

[molta02]

There are no blinders; as stated it has NOTHING/NADA/ZILCH to do with the fact that it is Ortiz who is at issue here.
Presumed innocence is exactly that;the case against Clemens is infinitely stronger at this point.
If/when/until the case against Ortiz or any other player accused through a leak is actually PROVEN, I will reserve final judgment.

At some point you will have to deal with the fact that you guys are just as bad as every other franchise that got busted. No more Mitchell report to hide under. Bottom line is the two best players on your two WS winning teams were juicing and have failed tests. And to think they did it only in 03 is beyond naive.

Off your high horse, nation. You guys got busted too.

[savage1]

At some point you will have to deal with the fact that you guys are just as bad as every other franchise that got busted. No more Mitchell report to hide under. Bottom line is the two best players on your two WS winning teams were juicing and have failed tests. And to think they did it only in 03 is beyond naive.

Off your high horse, nation. You guys got busted too.

I will be the first to admit it if/when I see more proof AND the entire list to see what other teams may have won the WS with players who MAY HAVE BEEN juicing.
ps By the way, did the Yankees offer yet to give back their WS Championships in 1999 and 2000 when Roger was a contributing member? lol

[molta02]

I will be the first to admit it if/when I see more proof AND the entire list to see what other teams may have won the WS with players who MAY HAVE BEEN juicing.
ps By the way, did the Yankees offer yet to give back their WS Championships in 1999 and 2000 when Roger was a contributing member? lol

i don't care if anyone or team was juicing. nobody should give any rings back, and i'd let all these guys in the HOF. why penalize the players when the owners, gm's, and unions practically endorsed the use of PEDs.

my issue is how sox fans acted like they were above this issue, and what a load of shit the mitchell report was. when that came out, plus the arod thing, you guys were practically dancing in the streets.

well, the tune of the nation has changed quite a bit.

[savage1]

i don't care if anyone or team was juicing. nobody should give any rings back, and i'd let all these guys in the HOF. why penalize the players when the owners, gm's, and unions practically endorsed the use of PEDs.

my issue is how sox fans acted like they were above this issue, and what a load of shit the mitchell report was. when that came out, plus the arod thing, you guys were practically dancing in the streets.

well, the tune of the nation has changed quite a bit.

Well I don't care what OTHER Sox fans were doing-as I PROVED yesterday in this forum, I gave credit to ARod for coming clean when he admiited his use of drugs.
You can generalize if you like about Sox fan, but don't include me-I am against the use of ANY PED'S by ANY player on ANY team INCLUDING the Red Sox and feel if it PROVEN that any player is taking them now, that player should be suspended for life!
That being said, players and folks in this country have a right to defend themselves.
If the evidence turns out to be convincing as it was in the case of Clemens and Bonds, then fine, punish them to max-keep them out of the HOF, etc-I am 100% in favor of that!
However, when there is a leak of a player's name such as was the case with Ortiz back in 2003 and it simply APPEARS that he took them, unlike some of you I want to be partient and hear more evidence and let other folks come forward as was the case of Clemens before simply assuming there is a 100% chance of guilt.
If your sense of what constitutes guilt or innocence is different from mine, then so be it.

[flarendep1]

I sure as heck respect Ppeter Gammons' opinion in such matters over YOURS whether he agrees with me or not!

Gammons is a good baseball guy but he is such a Red Sox homer it is not even funny. Maybe you are used to it. The world does not revolve around Boston much as you would like it to.

[savage1]

Gammons is a good baseball guy but he is such a Red Sox homer it is not even funny. Maybe you are used to it. The world does not revolve around Boston much as you would like it to.

Gammons used to be a beat writer for the Red Sox, and over the many years I read his columns, he criticized the Sox PLENTY of times over various matters.
What gets me is that some of you guys simply assume that because guys like Gammon, I and others are expressing some questions about Ortiz's guilt, that it must be because we are Red Sox fans.
Gammons is generally acclaimed to be one of the best baseball analysts around and calls it as he sees it, and that is is why he is one of ESPN's top analysts.
I wonder what you folks would say about Gammons if he agreed with you.
I have made plenty of points during the past few days and even presented proof that I commended ARod when he confessed guilt after I was taunted about the negative things I probably said re: Arod's using PED'S.
Curiously I noticed that when I make points to which no one has answers, everyone disappears for a while, no one shows me why my post was incorrect and/or invalid (except to weakly say "I don't care about such and such.") and then just brings up another related topic;actually by not answering, it makes me feel even more confident that what I say is true.
All I can say is I hope that if was accused of a crime, that most of you guys wouldn't comprise the jury and more importantly, the judge;sadly a lot of you live by the philosophy that one is guilt until proven innocent.

[BettorsChat]

Gammons is a good baseball guy but he is such a Red Sox homer it is not even funny. Maybe you are used to it. The world does not revolve around Boston much as you would like it to.

Gammons needs to retire!

[flarendep1]

Gammons needs to retire!

Maybe he can analyze shuffle board games for retired Red Sox players.

[savage1]

Someone just made a good and valid point on one of the Boston Talk Shows:
If the leaker really is intent on bringing out the truth here and knows more which he hasn't disclosed here, he will state what the substance was which Ortiz took.
Stuff like this is the reason why I want to sit back and wait for more events to unfold one way or the other before stating the Ortiz is guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Does anyone think that there won't be more statements now from the leaker and or possibly others regarding this matter?

[flarendep1]

Someone just made a good and valid point on one of the Boston Talk Shows:
If the leaker really is intent on bringing out the truth here and knows more which he hasn't disclosed here, he will state what the substance was which Ortiz took.
Stuff like this is the reason why I want to sit back and wait for more events to unfold one way or the other before stating the Ortiz is guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Does anyone think that there won't be more statements now from the leaker and or possibly others regarding this matter?

" Beyond a shadow of a doubt " With this being the threshhold, Clemens is innocent then. Everyone is innocent.

OJ got away with murder too. Marion (crackhead) Barry gets re-elected and cheats on his taxes but is not in jail.


This holier than thou attitude that "I will reserve judgement" is a copout.

I will not reserve judgement, I think Ortiz is a cheat based on the facts presented.

If their is a 5 % chance he did not, that means there is a 95 % chance he did. We are all gamblers here, which way will you bet it?
No wonder people hate attorneys.

[frankb03]

You are not a doctor and not in a positon to say that as fact.
There are PLENTY of doctors who think that some vitamins do help people woth vitamin deficiencies.

I don't need to be a doctor. There's been enough studies showing that the vitamins and supplements industry is a multi-million dollar fraud industry.

You're not a baseball player. Does that make you an authority on the sport? One doesn't have to be a doctor or play a sport to become educated on a subject.

There are PLENTY of doctors who think that some vitamins do help people woth vitamin deficiencies.

I agree! I didn't say ALL. Some vitamins are extremely helpful. That being said the industry is rampart with fraud. The latest is Acai Berry. Prior to that was Hoodia. There's a long line of supplements that are marketing as miracle 'drugs' but are a big time scam.

[savage1]

" Beyond a shadow of a doubt " With this being the threshhold, Clemens is innocent then. Everyone is innocent.

OJ got away with murder too. Marion (crackhead) Barry gets re-elected and cheats on his taxes but is not in jail.


This holier than thou attitude that "I will reserve judgement" is a copout.

I will not reserve judgement, I think Ortiz is a cheat based on the facts presented.

If their is a 5 % chance he did not, that means there is a 95 % chance he did. We are all gamblers here, which way will you bet it?
No wonder people hate attorneys.

As I have said before the evidence against Clemens AT THIS POINT is much stronger than it is against Ortiz;sworn testimony is stronger than a leak without identification of the substance used.
Whats your hurry? Are you so impatient that you can't wait a bit longer to see what more comes out of this?
Talk about the term "rush to judgment!"
He may very well have lied and not told the truth;if that is true, something further will probably be said, happen, etc. along the way to prove he is a liar such as was the case with Clemens.

[savage1]

I don't need to be a doctor. There's been enough studies showing that the vitamins and supplements industry is a multi-million dollar fraud industry.

You're not a baseball player. Does that make you an authority on the sport? One doesn't have to be a doctor or play a sport to become educated on a subject.




I agree! I didn't say ALL. Some vitamins are extremely helpful. That being said the industry is rampart with fraud. The latest is Acai Berry. Prior to that was Hoodia. There's a long line of supplements that are marketing as miracle 'drugs' but are a big time scam.

Ok-as long as you said some vitamins amd supplements are helpful, then I have not problem with what you say and actually agree about the fraud-penis enlargements and supplements to let a guy have sex a zillion times a day are prime examples.